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Thread: The Cataclystic Protection Warrior Spreadsheet

  1. #21
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    Heroic Strike, however, has anywhere between 2 and 3 times the crit (and therefore effective Deep Wound proc) rate than Devastate.

    Nice spreadsheet, though. Will be looking over it some more tomorrow. I have been getting Rawr.ProtWarr up to date recently as well and would like to see if our end results end up fairly similar.

    Andenthal, while I agree that Heroic Strike is way too powerful right now, I'm not totally sure you are giving some of the other elements (especially Sword and Board) quite enough weight.

    I'm also not sure why you are comparing Vengeance and Hit/Expertise. Hit and Expertise are multipliers on your current damage output. Therefore the effects should almost always be multiplicative. In fact, with higher levels of Vengeance one would suppose Hit and Expertise become more valuable than Strength, for instance, as Strength will be a small static increase compared to your much inflated Attack Power yet Hit and Expertise will still give you a percentage-based gain on your damage.

    That all said, I have little doubt that Heroic Strike will end up being nerfed. It's too strong for all specs when compared to other abilities and has been all through beta.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kojiyama View Post
    Heroic Strike, however, has anywhere between 2 and 3 times the crit (and therefore effective Deep Wound proc) rate than Devastate.
    While true, I'm not sure what you're getting at. It still takes longer for HS to catch up with Devastate - in TPR - when spec'd into Deep Wounds, compared to a non-Deep Wounds spec. Devastate starts off about 150% more efficient than HS, and gets more TPR benefit from DW than HS does.

    Also, not sure how HS could have 2-3x more crit than Devastate. Devastate is around 30% crit with raid buffs. HS would have to be near 100% crit to achieve those numbers.

    Andenthal, while I agree that Heroic Strike is way too powerful right now, I'm not totally sure you are giving some of the other elements (especially Sword and Board) quite enough weight.
    I said in my previous post, I was quite generous with SnB procs (was a total of 15 in a minute with 6 of them being buffed with Heavy Repercussions). HS still won by a landslide.

    HS is hitting harder per use than a non-Heavy Repercussion buffed Shield Slam (like 50% harder). HS can be used twice as often, discounting SnB procs. You'd need 50% of your Shield Slams to be HR buffed to equal the damage output of HS. Even with extremely lucky SnB procs allowing you to SS every 3 secs, HS will still be more damage output (accounting for Heavy Repercussions, it would come out ahead).

    The only ability that would even be close to the same output would be Revenge. But is has poor AP scaling, and thus actually gets bumped down a little on the totem pole as Vengeance goes up.

    This might change a bit with today's patch, but I doubt it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kojiyama View Post
    I'm also not sure why you are comparing Vengeance and Hit/Expertise. Hit and Expertise are multipliers on your current damage output. Therefore the effects should almost always be multiplicative. In fact, with higher levels of Vengeance one would suppose Hit and Expertise become more valuable than Strength, for instance, as Strength will be a small static increase compared to your much inflated Attack Power yet Hit and Expertise will still give you a percentage-based gain on your damage.
    I'm comparing them because they are both purely threat stats. True, Hit/Expertise scale your damage multiplicatively. While Vengeance is a linear scaling mechanic, it scales much, much faster than both Hit/Expertise combined. Going from 0% Hit/0 Expertise to 8% Hit/26 Expertise will not triple your DPS. Going from 0 Vengeance to 100% Vengeance will triple your DPS - and it does it regardless of your Hit/Expertise.

    Although, I admit, I could have worded my previous post better. It makes it appear that I condone completely forgetting about Hit and Expertise, which I do not.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andenthal View Post
    I'm comparing them because they are both purely threat stats. True, Hit/Expertise scale your damage multiplicatively. While Vengeance is a linear scaling mechanic, it scales much, much faster than both Hit/Expertise combined. Going from 0% Hit/0 Expertise to 8% Hit/26 Expertise will not triple your DPS. Going from 0 Vengeance to 100% Vengeance will triple your DPS - and it does it regardless of your Hit/Expertise.

    Although, I admit, I could have worded my previous post better. It makes it appear that I condone completely forgetting about Hit and Expertise, which I do not.
    Sure, you can compare the hit/expertise and vengeance components of our thread. But you say, that one should dismiss reaching for the hit/expertise cap when one only faces content that gives high amounts of vengeance. That could be a good advice if you can invest into vengeance instead of hit/expertise while gearing. But that's not the case.

    Vengeance stacks with your healthpool and with getting a high and enough hits. So if you want to move your stats away from hit/expertise to stats that help you get vengeance, you have to invest either in stam or in non-avoidance or even non-mitigation.

    You can only push your stamina via geming (ok and trinket-choice but that's something you decide because of each encounter and the trinktets you have access to). Nearly nobody says that geming for hit/expertise and including gems for stam is the way to go. So nearly nobody makes the decision there.

    The other option to tune our gear is reforging. You cannot reforge stam. If you want to reforge for more vengenace you have to reforge AWAY from avoidance stats and maybe even away from mastery. The only stats you can reforge to in this case are hit, expertise and crit. Crit never is as good as hit or expertise until you reach the caps, so if you are reforging to hit and expertise you are actually also reforging "for" vengeance. They are not exclusive but buff each other.

    So reforging for hit/expertise is a better choice than to chose a hit/expertise trinket. At least if you are near the hit/expertise cap anyway and it does not change your ability to reach unhittable.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kojiyama View Post
    That all said, I have little doubt that Heroic Strike will end up being nerfed. It's too strong for all specs when compared to other abilities and has been all through beta.
    Not just Heroic Strike. Cleave is doing too much damage compared to Thunderclap, Rend and Shockwave as well and these abilities do too little.

  5. #25
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    Update:
    Devastate threat is 0
    Rend damage scaling is fixed
    Elixirs & Flasks are added, only need Mixology bonuses for them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  6. #26
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    WarTotem, sorry for asking, but what exactly does this worksheet? :P

  7. #27
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    you plug in your stats, and it gives you the optimal threat rotation and or calculations for each skill you use, helps you determine small stat changes and their effects on your overall tanking threat as well as far as i remember.

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  8. #28
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    Both threat and damage reduction actually.

    Currently working on updating Burst Time with some sort of Mastery integration, because it is finally large enough to matter in a dire situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
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  9. #29
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    Mixology Benefits

    Flask of Steelskin - 300 + 120 Stam
    Elixir of Deep Earth - 900 + 120 Armor
    Prismatic Elixir - 90 + 15 Resistance
    Elixir of the Master - 225 + 40 Mastery Rating
    Elixir of the Naga - 225 + 40 Expertise Rating
    Elixir of Impossible Accuracy - 225 + 0 Hit Rating (seems to be bugged, also lacking double duration mixology benefit)

    The HP calculation is still significantly off. I have about 195k fully raid-buffed and the Dec 14th spreadsheet says I have 202k without Fort, a flask or a food buff. Lacking accuracy on something basic like total HP really shakes confidence in the rest of the spreadsheet.

  10. #30
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    Thank you for your great sharing, Wartotem.
    It's really helpful to me. By the way, Can I introduce this sheet to KR server players?
    If you approve it, I'll translate this sheet to Korean and introduce this sheet to some major KR wow fansites.
    Of course, I will write the fact that this sheet is made by you and from tankspot.

    I'm playing in KR PvE svr Burning Legion and ID is 'Maintanker'
    I'll wait for your answer. Please reply to me.

    Happy new year~~! <3

  11. #31
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    @Quewatoka:
    Thank you for the Mixology numbers. I'll update them as soon as I can.
    I'll recheck, but can you specify the problem a bit more? Is the base HP incorrect? Are you sure you had all the buffs correct? Are you sure you picked the unbuffed Stamina to enter in the spreadsheet? I'll recheck later, but my Warrior isn't 85 yet, so can't test the numbers myself atm.

    @Maintanker:
    I'll be updating the spreadsheet soon with a bit of extra, so you might wonna make sure you grab that version.
    But sure, you can translate all you want. As long as you mention/link where it comes from you're free to link this spreadsheet where-ever you like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  12. #32
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    Spreadsheet updated

    I have added Mixology numbers as well as a toggle on the Damage Reduction sheet for Mastery.
    Putting in 1 there will consider (Critical) Block as avoidance, with it's value being Block Chance * Block Value.
    So e.g. 40% Block chance and 35% average block will work out as 40%*35% = 14% 'avoidance'
    You can turn this off easily, but it does show the effect of Shield Block on survivability quite well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  13. #33
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    @WarTotem

    I PM'd you about the HP issue three weeks ago. "It looks like it's multiplying the character sheet Stam # by Vitality and possibly Plate Spec when they're already included on the character sheet #." Take a stamina-stacking tank like Sco, plug in their character sheet Stam and add 585 for Fort and it'll give an unrealistic number like 221k HP.

  14. #34
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    Weird, I thought I fixed that. Must have gone something wrong with the saving then, will fix & post once I'm back on the laptop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  15. #35
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    Fixed the Stamina scaling thingy.
    You can download the new version or paste the following into cell Stats.F10
    =ABS((E10+ABS(IF('Talents&Buffs'.B5='Talents&Buffs '.B21;300+E19*120)+'Talents&Buffs'.E9)*1,15*1,05)* (1+'Talents&Buffs'.E8))
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  16. #36
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    I just grabbed the latest version and noticed a few errors in the ODS version. I have not checked the Excel version.

    The armor reduction formula is wrong in two places. The level used in the formula should be the attacker's level, not the defender's.

    1. On the Stats tab, "Boss' armor reduction" pulls in the value of 'Stats'.H9 for the level, which is 88, rather than hardcoding 85. In that same cell, it uses an incorrect constant: 128167.5 rather than 158167.5

    2. On the Damage Reduction tab, "Your Armor %" pulls in the value of 'Damage Reduction'.F4, which hardcodes 85 as the level rather than pulling in from 'Stats'.H9.

  17. #37
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    Checked,fixed & uploaded. (can't believe I managed to nab on those things)

    Don't worry about differences in the .ODS & .DOC files. The Excel one is basicly a "Saved as..." version of the ODS, because that's what I'm used to using.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  18. #38
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    Two things:

    1. Last I checked, boss parry chance hasn't changed from 14% since Wrath, where do you get 17% from?

    2. The +X Stamina buff needs to be updated to 585.

  19. #39
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    1) Boss parry is changeable, I just took 17% as example, feel free to change it to what you want

    2) For now you can just type in the number, I'll update all appropriate values in the next update.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  20. #40
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    I'm not following the formulas for calculating block on the Stats tab.

    Normal Block Chance:
    F15 = MIN(1-'Damage Reduction'.E5,0.05+0.15+E15/8835.94+C16*0.015-0.002*(H9-85))

    I think "E15/8835.94" is a spurious term; but since E15 is currently blank, this probably doesn't affect the calculation but could cause trouble later.

    EDIT: The rest of this post was a mistake on my behalf.

    Average block is either just wrong or I'm not reducing nearly far enough:
    F16 = IF(Stats.E17,0.31,0.3)*(1+C16*0.015+E21/10)

    The meta branching seems right so ignoring that for now to make it easier:
    0.3 * (1 + CritBlockChance + HtL_Uptime / 10), where CritBlockChance is only that from mastery.

    It seems to me like the weighted average should be:

    ( 1 - HtL_Uptime ) [ 0.3 * ( ( 1 - CritBlockChance ) + 2 * ( CritBlockChance ) ) ]
    + ( HtL_Uptime ) [ 0.3 * ( ( 1 - ( CritBlockChance + 10 ) ) + 2 * ( CritBlockChance + 10 ) ) ]
    Where the first line is the weighted average of blocks without HtL
    and the second line is the weighted average of blocks with HtL

    Even that is a little too simple for higher gear levels, when the extra block from shield block starts getting converted to crit block.
    Last edited by tanis; 12-30-2010 at 08:25 AM.

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