Prot Warrior - is mastery worth reforging?

[Voradrac]

Simple question is it worth reforging off dodge and parry into mastery? Looks like even reforging as much as possible we cant get anywhere near block capped.

For the moment I just reforged on a little extra hit to get capped and am just gearing straight EH like I would have pre 4.0.

[Angur]

Hey Voradrac,

I have turned every bit of "Dodge" on my gear into Mastery. I left parry alone so I could proc "Hold the Line" more often. The Warrior is played differently now and we need to focus on mitigating incoming damage.

Here is my armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...adgar&cn=Angur

My gear might look a bit different from yours... however I have 19% dodge, 21% parry and 43% Block.

[Takethecake]

I reforged full mastery and ended up with 21% dodge / parry each and around 44% block. Having only 11% chance for a full damage hit seems to help.

[Voradrac]

Ok going to try a mastery reforge, ended up post reforging at 17.57% dodge/20.22% parry/40.67% block with 20% crit block chance 83% chance to avoid or block.

did ICC 25 normal tonight with no reforge and damage intake was a tad spikier than it was pre 4.0 (mostly due to going from 35k unbuffed armor to 29k unbuffed armor).

Tps/Dps were insane though, landed a 65k shield slam on festergut and topped 16k AP during the 3 inhale phase when I had LS up.

[Tinytankz]

All your doing is trading a % to fully avoid damage for a larger % to block that damage and potentially double block. (yo dawg heard you like RNG....) all it will do is smooth out the incoming damage. My tank set is 100% reforged as much as possible for mastery i do in fact take more damage (WoL showed as much will find them if i think about it later) but it is in much smaller bursts and way more healable

[Airowird]

In the current game, it is worth reforging avoidance into Mastery, especially if you use Shield Block enough.
The best option though is to reforge both Dodge and Parry, while keeping Parry rating just higher than Dodge rating.
This provides the best damage reduction and still provides enough HtL.
The uptime of HtL does not really chance THAT much between 20 & 22% Parry, so don't gimp Dodge for that minimal increase!

Here's the math:
On a 2.00s boss swing: 67,23% uptime at 20% Parry vs 71,13% at 22% (or 0,39% extra crit block for 2% Parry)
If you count the crit block relative to the Parry, you will know that you only gain about 3% extra damage reduction (up to 5% on fast bosses). Therefor your Parry rating should be around 100-105% of your Dodge rating for optimal gain.
Make sure you count ratings and not actual chances, because Agility will change your dodge chance without touching DR.

[wit3]

wartotem don't forget we did the math for 4.0.3 and not for live, on live server mastery isn't 1,5 but only 1,25 so in therms of dmg reduce dodge and parry are better on low mastery

For example the 4 point of mastery is better than the 1% increase from 22 to 23 % of Dodge pre DR

on Cataclysm u can go for Mastery till u hit the 77,6% total avoidence.

[Voradrac]

the odd thing I noticed was that it only added about 10% block chance and doubled my crit block% that in effect almost triples the amount of crit blocks you get.

Out of 100 attacks base mastery would give you 30 blocks and 3 crit blocks. just going to 40% block/20% crit block changes that to 40 blocks and 8 crit blocks.

Ill see how it works, if it reduces spiky damage intake even if total dmg taken is slightly higher than its still likely better in ICC where healer mana is a non-issue.

[Takethecake]

Make sure you count ratings and not actual chances, because Agility will change your dodge chance without touching DR.

I thought dodge from your base (naked) agility was untouched by DR. So dodge from your leg enchant and any other enchants if you chose to use them were factored into DR.

[Airowird]

Exactly, this is why I make a point of using Dodge Rating, not Dodge chance.
If you keep Parry Rating just above Dodge Rating, your Parry chance will still be below your Dodge chance, which is normal.
I merely wanted to point out that difference so nobody read me wrong.

[Andenthal]

Ah, I see the confusion here:

What Wartotem said.

Make sure you count ratings and not actual chances, because Agility will change your dodge chance without touching DR.

What we all thought Wartotem was saying

Make sure you count ratings and not actual chances, because Agility will change your dodge chance without touching Diminishing Returns.

What Wartotem actually meant

Make sure you count ratings and not actual chances, because Agility will change your dodge chance without affecting Dodge Rating.

I originally read it the same way Takethecake did - to imply that Agility was unaffected by Diminishing returns.

There's too many acronyms in this dang game.
And we use the same ones for too many different things.

DR =
Diminishing Returns
Damage Reduction
Dodge Rating

[Airowird]

Actually, I was saying that,because I made a mistake copying my old spreadsheet over.

[Jammer Six]

There's too many acronyms in this dang game.

Yes, there are!

For that reason, I refuse to use them, and I look down on people who do as either illiterate or lazy.

[Nez]

Yes, there are!

For that reason, I refuse to use them, and I look down on people who do as either illiterate or lazy.

You must be TALL!


I agree though, it can be very confusing with all the new terms being thrown around.

[Agmar]

Maybe you guys should join the A.A.A.A.A

[Airowird]

Maybe you guys should join the A.A.A.A.A

Angry Alcoholics Against Acronym Abuse?

[MellvarTank]

Actors Against Animal Abuse in America?

[Jammer Six]

Asshats Agonizing About Anything, Anyway?

[Captain Crunch]

Agmar's Acronym Abuse Awareness Association?

[carnathagia]

I'm sorry, but I do not see the value in Mastery rating over avoidance stats such as Dodge rating and Parry rating. I see references to things like 'making damage less spiky', but with the huge health pools, I've not had a problem with this. Tank deaths are occuring over fairly long periods of time, and healer mana and throughput is the limiting factor, not getting 2 shot between heals.

Looking at it mathematically:
Dodge rating = ~176.72 rating for a 1% chance at 100% damage reduction.
Parry rating = ~176.72 ratings for 1% chance at 100% damage reduction.
Mastery Rating = ~179.28 rating for a 1.5% chance at 30% damage reduction and a ~.05% chance at 60% damage reduction. (assuming critical block is still a 2 roll system, and 30ish% block.)

It seems that Mastery will scale such as Armor Penetration did, each point is better than the previous one. Combined with the DR on Dodge and Parry, I could see it being better at higher gear levels. I've been working on this problem, but I haven't found anything definitive yet. I'm hoping the tankspot people have something better to say.