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Thread: The Numbers Give Me Migraines!!!

  1. #1

    The Numbers Give Me Migraines!!!

    I don't know what it is, but for some odd reason I can't seem to figure out the numbers. I have scoured the forums (this and several others) and still have no definitive answer as to what I should be looking for while playing the numbers game on my Prot Warrior post-patch.

    As it stands (with the reforging done that I am now second guessing) I am currently at;

    9.53% Hit rating
    20.85% Dodge
    20.15% Parry
    30.41% Block
    24 Expertise
    8.33 Mastery

    This has been based off the following considerations from what I have seen posted on the forums

    1. Mastery is somewhat pointless at the moment
    2. 20% for Dodge and Parry are the minimums
    2. Dodge and Parry should be kept as close to equal as possible
    3. You need a minimum of 26 Expertise to Raid

    When I reforged, I had an excessive amount of dodge, which I turned into hit, parry and expertise to try and reach the caps listed based on what I had read.

    My gear currently consists of Badge Gear (T9 Helm, T10 Shoulders and Gloves, Belt) and a few miscellaneous pieces from Heroics and ICC. Here is my armory http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Caelestrasz&cn=Beiste. Am I on the right track? What can I fine tune if anything? Am I just completely off base for the class at the moment?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by IggyTheCorrupted View Post

    This has been based off the following considerations from what I have seen posted on the forums

    1. Mastery is somewhat pointless at the moment
    Not true. Mastery is a valuable mitigation stat, and does a lot to smooth damage intake.
    2. 20% for Dodge and Parry are the minimums
    Not really. More is better, less is worse, but there's no specific minimum number. I believe my parry is at like 18% right now, and I'm doing fine.
    2. Dodge and Parry should be kept as close to equal as possible
    This is true, as far as my understanding.
    3. You need a minimum of 26 Expertise to Raid
    Not true. 26 expertise means you won't be dodged. If you can't hold threat at 20 expertise because the boss mobs dodge you 1.5% of the time, you have other problems.
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  3. #3
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    Mastery is not useless - it's better than both dodge and parry. You can see the math in the post I linked below, but he basically says stack mastery until you're at 100% crit block, then back off on it as you increase your parry rating. The reasoning behind that is the synergy with Hold the Line. As you get more parry, the uptime on HtL approaches 100%, permanently adding 10% crit block, so those points are best used in other places.

    Generally - Reforge dodge and parry into Mastery, keeping parry slightly higher than dodge (they're on the same DR now, and parry is more useful).

    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...sid=1&pageNo=1

    One other note - current testing is showing that expertise softcap (for dodges) is currently at about 173 expertise rating, or 22 expertise.

  4. #4
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    PS. the current expertise cap for dodges is 22. the tooltip in your character screen is either wrong, or it's 22 due to a bug. either way it's currently 22 expertise to remove dodges from the hit table

    |TGM UI |Fury Warrior Guide | How To Use Landsoul's Spreadsheet| The Numbers Game |
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  5. #5
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    Also small correction, you want Parry rating to be close to, but higher than Dodge

    Damage reduction part: The one with less rating gets more per rating, so you want both Dodge & Parry rating to be close to each other.
    Threat part: Parry gives HtL, which makes it slightly better
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thegreatme View Post
    PS. the current expertise cap for dodges is 22. the tooltip in your character screen is either wrong, or it's 22 due to a bug. either way it's currently 22 expertise to remove dodges from the hit table
    Apparently I'm behind the times. Did they reduce boss dodge chance vs. players, or did the potency of expertise change?
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
    I'm empty and aching and I don't know why
    Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reev View Post
    Apparently I'm behind the times. Did they reduce boss dodge chance vs. players, or did the potency of expertise change?
    the rating per 1 expertise is the same, but bosses just seem to have less chance to dodge.

    |TGM UI |Fury Warrior Guide | How To Use Landsoul's Spreadsheet| The Numbers Game |
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  8. #8
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    I am not sure how you came to your conclusions after scouring tankspot. It has been said over and over again that expertise is not needed. Literally 100s of posts in which people have repeatedly said that while expertise is the best threat stat it is not needed, aids in survivability on very few fights, and really shouldn't make or break your threat.

    And I and a few others have been saying to stack mastery for quite a while now, at least a week or so. I know a few people have been putting down warrior mastery but if you read deeper into those posts you usually end up seeing people arguing why mastery is so good. Block reduces the likelyhood of you having a worst case scenario health spike and makes tank healing much steadier. Everybody is overhealing a ton in ICC atm, who cares if you take slightly more damage as long as your health pool isn't spiking down to a point where you might die.
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  9. #9
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    In that case, what happened to the expertise hardcap (i.e. Parries)? Any results on that, or did bosses get the same dodge/parry mechanics that players did?

  10. #10
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    " It has been said over and over again that expertise is not needed. Literally 100s of posts in which people have repeatedly said that while expertise is the best threat stat it is not needed, aids in survivability on very few fights, and really shouldn't make or break your threat."

    Did you try to Raid on 4.01 Launch Day? keeping threat with out expertise against the new DPS builds are brutal no one wants to wait. With some Expertise I cruise through snap boss aggro (almost like pre patch) and is just builds over time it is not about survivability but keeping aggro for the first 10 seconds of the fight. I still have 68-70K HP in ICC buffed so placing a few into expertise (now up at 30) just helped my threat I even switched to the 264 Gladiator Mace vs Bonebreaker Scepter Marrowgar Mace it makes a huge difference if you have High DPS trying to pull off you.

    The way I see it......it's is not about surviving for us as much as the others in the group.

  11. #11
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    Also, my interest is in avoiding parry-haste in Heroic Halion 25man. Knowing if this cap has moved would aid me in gearing for more survivability.

  12. #12
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    Sorry for goin offtopic, but for heroic halion25 the best way to gear is for EH (if on top, since the avoidance debuff is still there), and unhittable for bottom (or max EH if you can't get unhittable). Parry haste is almost a non-issue cause you can just go nuts on threat at the start then stop attacking almost all of p3. No attacks, no parries lol.

  13. #13
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    At any rate, I did some testing and it seems the parry cap is still 56 expertise rating. I tested on the heroic boss dummy at 54 and 56 expertise for 1/2 an hour at a time. 54 got me parries very few parries (but parries nonetheless), while 56 did not. Nothing more empirical than that.

  14. #14
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    Well, you can actually look on the char sheet now and it will tell you the chance for you attack to be parried by different levels mobs + bosses.
    Xíanth <Valkyria>

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