Corpse Tongue Coin - my shameful dilemma

[Belak]

So, is it just my imagination, or did Corpse Tongue Coin http://www.wowhead.com/item=50349 just become a fantastic trinket (after reforging) for paladins and warriors trying to maximize their Mastery stat?

I have to admit, I'm a little disturbed by the thought of a world where the CTC is a desirable item. Especially considering how many times I passed on it. Doh.

[theodisius]

Yes, I like it. Reforged, it goes a long way to making me block capped despite using the wrathful shield (I have not been able to get a shield from a raid drop).

In the new world of block capping, we are going to want to look again at trading off avoidance stats with effective health ones. Before, we only made such trades where the stamina loss was minimal (e.g. to get a +12 stamina bonus). Now, we are going to be willing to make higher cost trades if it gets us to block cap - either directly and/or after reforging avoidance for mastery.

If we compare non-heroic CTC to the glyph of indomitability (my second trinket), it is not a bad way to trade off effective health for avoidance: ie 1792 armour vs 162 dodge. If we value 12 armour as equivalent to 1 stamina, then that trade (9.8 health per 1 avoidance rating) is rather like using a mixed avoidance/stamina gem for a +6 stamina slot bonus (9 health for one avoidance). Not recommended pre-patch but worth considering now.

And that overlooks the secondary effect of the coin, which I prefer to that of the glyph. Here, I confess I have not done the maths on the secondary effects, it is just I prefer a passive proc at low health to an on use one - cue lament for the old Ardent Defender.

[Reev]

Yeah, I've been kind of eyeing my CTC. Haven't made a decision yet, but that quantity of mastery strikes me as pretty sexy.

[ironsides]

Pretty much, ive been looking at my CTC alot, I don't know if I want to use it or not because I am still not quite at unhittable cap. I am not sure it will be worth it unless I hit the cap, so basically im waiting until I get my HM halion boots, the belt of festergut which never drops and the neck from Dreamwalker which is better than the armor one now due to the armor reductions. Once I get these items I should be able to hit unhittable cap and I would probably make the change at that point, in all likelyhood not until then however and at that point id still only do it for melee heavy fights, off tanking LK hm I need hp to soak viles, eat shockwaves, and eat up all the valkarie damage so probably not an option for that fight or sindraggosa.

[theodisius]

Ironsides, I don't quite get the idea that the unhittable cap is an all or nothing thing (ie not worth striving for unless you can hit it). The principle, as I understand it, is to reduce the "spikiness" of damage - ie the size of the average hit. Increasing your block, unless you are capped, will do that and surely this, in itself, is a good thing regardless of whether it completely eliminates unblocked hits or not? It will reduce the chance of you getting killed by an unlucky string of big hits (e.g. when your healers are unable to rescue you for whatever reason). You do still have trade off whether this reduction is spikiness is worth the cost of sacrificing part of your pool of effective health (or total avoidance or whatever else you are sacrificing for it). But I don't get the "all or nothing" assessment of the benefit.

[Nez]

I reforged mine with mastery to play around with. I am still kicking myself for passing on all those heroic ones we sharded over the months. DoH!

[Theotherone]

Glad I took CTC on my pally and endured all those "noob, that's the worst trinket in the game insults".

[ironsides]

Ironsides, I don't quite get the idea that the unhittable cap is an all or nothing thing (ie not worth striving for unless you can hit it). The principle, as I understand it, is to reduce the "spikiness" of damage - ie the size of the average hit. Increasing your block, unless you are capped, will do that and surely this, in itself, is a good thing regardless of whether it completely eliminates unblocked hits or not? It will reduce the chance of you getting killed by an unlucky string of big hits (e.g. when your healers are unable to rescue you for whatever reason). You do still have trade off whether this reduction is spikiness is worth the cost of sacrificing part of your pool of effective health (or total avoidance or whatever else you are sacrificing for it). But I don't get the "all or nothing" assessment of the benefit.

The idea of reducing the likelyness of spikey damage is still very much in play, that is why I am reforged full mastery and it is what I have been preaching for basically a week and a half. However EH is still the ability to survive that spike, I am all for reducing the occurence of those spikes but I am still reluctant to sacrifice actual EH which lets me live the spikes for less often spikes. Until you hit unhittable cap it is still RNG, spikes are still what kills you and until you hit unhittable all the block and avoidance in the world will do very little for you when the worst case scenario happens.

Atm this isn't very apparent because we all out gear encounters, but in cataclysm (hypothetical) when that spike damage actually puts us in a situation that can kill us, id rather spike often and live than to spike once in an encounter and end up dead do to lack of EH. I will sacrifice parry and dodge for block but unless I am at unhittable cap or very close I will remain weary of giving up HP or armor.

EH reduces spike damage, avoidance/mastery reduces the likelyness to spike, only unhittable does both.

[Bladesong]

Glad I took CTC on my pally and endured all those "noob, that's the worst trinket in the game insults".

After getting burned in TOC because I'd vendored really old block gear, I've been very careful to roll on, and hold on to, even "bad" tank gear. Heroic Corpse Tongue Coin: it's not just for inflating gearscore any more.

[ironsides]

I used to use CTC all the time back in the day, whenever Flame Leviathon was the weekly i would throw it on so my demolisher would do more damage. =P