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Thread: Protection Warrior PvP 4.0.1+

  1. #1
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    Protection Warrior PvP 4.0.1+

    Any thoughts on how the changes are gonna affect your spec? So far I'm not liking some of the things that are different in the Prot tree, as far as PvP is concerned.

    I'm sure everyone's having gear issues with the gem changes. Not sure why they didn't refund them, or change them all to mastery, or keep them the same color, or tailor it to your class, but I'm also sure I'm not the first to say any of that.

    I'm finding myself having rage issues in PvP as prot, at least against casters. I skipped the shield specialization talent in trying to mimic my last spec when I only had 2 points in it, without really reading it, and now I'm realizing that was a terrible idea, and it also appears they're planning to make blocking more important for warriors in Cataclysm anyway, judging from the so-far-lackluster Mastery we've been given.

    How much resilience should we be shooting for now?

    I mostly wanted to bring up the talents from the other two trees, and a couple iffy prot talents:

    Arms
    • War Academy
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=84572
    Before the patch, I'd be tempted to say that if you take War Academy as prot, I'm probably going to find your car and pee on the door handle. The only reason I don't say that, is that I've yet to see how these HS/Cleave/VR mechanic changes are going to affect things for either PvE or PvP.
    • Field Dressing
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=84580
    Field Dressing is a no-brainer raiding talent, and could be great for PvP if you have a healer around. For arena, fresh, but for BGs it's probably a waste.

    • Blitz
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=80977
    Blitz seems awesome for PvP, at least situationally. I would really like to know what range the nearby person has to be in. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem worth it to drop talents into this as Prot when you never know when it's going to come in handy and it's relatively useless for PvE aside from building initial rage. Arms, sure, but probably not Prot. I wish it applied to Intercept as well, or increased the stun time, or the second point stunned more people or something. It's also good for pressuring Philip Rivers to throw the ball away.
    Fury
    • Blood Craze
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=16492
    The math on Blood Craze makes it a little less enticing than I initially thought, although having it in the first tier and not dependent on crits had me pretty excited. If you have 40k health, that's 3k HP per proc, a little more with FD from Arms. Again, awesome for your healer in long fights, but kinda unpredictable in PvP. If it wasn't a HoT, maybe, but chances are, it's not gonna proc when you want it to, and if you're about to die and it does proc, you're probably gonna die anyway if you're only getting 3k and it takes 5 seconds.
    • Battle Trance
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=85742
    The proc rate on Battle Trance is kinda the question here. Rage starvation can definitely be a problem in arena if nobody's focusing you because you're prot. Not sure how much Sentinel will help that in PvP. 15% chance is pretty decent, and a lot of our abilities cost more now without the old talents.
    • Cruelty
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12852
    More crit. Okay, Cruelty's not that simple anymore. There's twice as much crit, BUUUUUT it's now limited to Shield Slam. 10% more for SS is pretty sexy for that last second PvP burst, and this is definitely the only talent I can say WILL improve your DPS and WILL NOT screw up your rotation. However, the question is simply whether or not it's worth it.
    Prot
    • Impending Victory
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=80129
    Here's the question: How often are you going to be hitting Devastate on somebody under 20%; and is 5% health half of those hits going to be worth it? Kinda good for saving your ass when you're both low on health. Probably worth it, and useful on bosses if your healers are getting worn out.
    • Incite
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=50687
    Anyone have any insight (badum-chh) on how important HS will be for prot in either PvE or PvP now that it's, you know, different?
    • Thunderstruck
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=80980
    AC/DC jokes aside, Thunderstruck makes it seem like they want us to use Rend and Thunder Clap a lot more often. I'm ambivalent on how much a 6% dmg increase on any of those will help things, and the Shockwave buff is really the only part that helps us in PvP. This is definitely a talent meant to combine with Blood and Thunder to help our AoE tanking, but with less points to throw around, spending 4 pts on those talents is a lot, with little benefit to PvP.
    • Blood and Thunder
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=84615
    Great for tanking trash, and pretty much the only reason to hit Rend, but this seems more like a talent for Arms warriors to grab. Rend just doesn't do enough, and in PvP i doubt you'll be around enough people to waste two GCD to Rend everyone.
    • Vigilance
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=50720
    Now that it doesn't help with threat, Vig is really only good for helping out a squishy that's getting hit by something. In arena, I can see grabbing this, but for BGs people are dying too much to keep picking random suckas to put it on.
    • Safeguard
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=46949
    One that hasn't changed, but its importance is debatable with less points to toss about. For arena, it's great if you get good at keeping an eye on your teammates, but maybe Intervene is good enough without Safeguard to put those points somewhere else. But if you skip both Vigilance and Safeguard your ability to save the one squish who keeps dying is pretty nerfed.
    Before the patch, I had given up some prot talents for some increased dps, but these changes make that a pretty difficult decision. Blood Craze and Field Dressing seem HUGE for raiding, but don't really help so much in PvP, and I'm personally not keen on having two separate prot specs for PvP/PvE and no dps spec. Well, maybe.


    Stat priority?

    What weapon enchants do you plan to use? Now with no ArP, Executioner is 120 crit. How does Mongoose suffer from the Agility changes? Blade Ward benefits from Hold the Line, but I never understood why I'd want to choose Blade Ward anyway. Blood Draining might be okay for PvP survivability but 2k health is meh. As Prot, you can probably stomach the 5% armor drop from Berserking, if that's still what it is.
    Last edited by Lautoa; 10-18-2010 at 09:35 AM.

  2. #2
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    I love how a prot warrior can miss his shield bash and still silence me for 4 seconds.

  3. #3
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    http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#LMZhbMoZhfGdRRobbu

    PVP prot talent tree, shield spec is a great talent , in pve you only need 1point, but for pvp you should max it, as you get 60 rage every time you spell reflect and 15 rage every time you block, thats alot of rage from all types of players. The victory rush thing isnt worth taking,its more a pve dungeon ability imo or for when you know you really need it (for eg you playing 2v2 two dps).

    PS. I forgot glyphs...

    http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#LMZhb...obbu:oV0fqbokz

    Also some talents i have taken are just filler, as in I had no choice but to take them to get to next tier. Its pretty obvious which are the fillers, and if you feel like changing the fillers feel free to.
    Last edited by Krays; 10-16-2010 at 09:04 AM.
    "Gnoma Brasi sleeps withs the murlocs"

  4. #4
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    looks like ya went up to 85 too.

    not sure, but i think i'm gonna go with the long charge glyph instead of intercept stun... personal preference, but i hate being kited and sometimes it seems like they can stay out of charge range.

    mine looks like this right now:
    http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#LZhbZ...R0bu:oV00qbokz



    i also can't find a definitive answer on the resilience changes. anyone know aside from it not affecting being crit? what's the dmg reduction cap?

  5. #5
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    Using http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#LZhbZcrhdRRodru

    Vigilance is great for the veng stacks, in BG or arenas. Safeguard is too good to skip in BGs IMO; nice utility to keep your flag carriers and healers alive. I should swap Thunderstruck for Impending Victory instead, It would have made a difference in a toe-to-toe match against another melee class, which usually drags on longer than pre-patch.

    Gearing is pretty straight forward now, hit > str > crit > resil. Not sure about the resil cap, I'm sitting on 1.1k resiliance in arms spec and that provides 31~% damage reduction.

    I haven't come across rage issues in BGs, but I don't spam abilities every GCD like I was before patch - devastate, HS, and shockwave don't do as much damage as before, so most of the time I'm pooling rage for shield slam. Apart from adding to the concussion blow > shield block + shield slam burst damage, HS don't really have much use since it cost way too much for its damage.

    Enchant wise, berserking is solid - in fact anything that buffs SS damage is solid; On-use AP trinkets, Ashen Verdict ring etc.

  6. #6
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    what about expertise? i have 0 if i'm in all-PvP gear. i don't usually go entirely PvP unless i'm in a large BG and wanna stay alive for more honor, but still... i know exp isn't a priority, but how much of a waste would it be to gem/reforge for a tiny amount?

    vengeance is kinda weird for prot pvp, because ultimately you need to take 200% of your health in damage before you can get to 10% of your health in AP. great if you've got good heals, but in BGs there might not be anyone around you... i can see how vigilance helps a little, but my problem is simply that in BGs if i die, or they die, i forget to always have it up on somebody. do either vengeance or vigilance give you rage?


    i noticed you didn't take hold the line. i'm already pretty ambivalent about that particular talent, and it definitely seems less useful for pvp... but i'm wondering if it'll hurt me in pve not to take it.
    Last edited by Lautoa; 10-18-2010 at 12:50 AM.

  7. #7
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    The only melee ability that would need expertise is concussion blow; shockwave is ranged, shield slam is semi-spamable and nothing else is on a cooldown. It may matter more in an arena setting where that 1 dodged concussion blow will cost you a kill.

    I doubt we can realistically aim for something as high as 10% hp to AP (that's 4k AP with my pvp set) in current PvP contents, even with a healer, it will take one extremely long fight to get to that point, considering how quickly vengeance drops. I have easily got up 800~ AP while a mage is free casting on me (so I know nothing else proc'd to give me AP).

    Hold the line doesn't seem to have a very high up-time in PvE, I don't do hard modes, and in normal ICC I'm doing fine without it.

  8. #8
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    I have a odd question. Ive never done prot and im thinking of keeping my low level for bg. I love bg even with all the shadowstepping rogues now and was wondering what talents should i use? Can anyone help with a rotation. Im usually doing one on one stuff in bg. I might stay at 19 if not i wont move past 29. My toon is tungstenx on norgannon server if you want to look it up on armory and give me suggestions. I would greatly appreciate some decent advice. Tyia

  9. #9
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    rotation for pvp ... am i only one that had *rotfl* after reading this?

  10. #10
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    Im sorry i forget that everyones a complete pro at a brand new class when they start it. Ive read alot on here and im sure there our others who just lurk because they get laughed at for asking a question but most of the info is for high level warrs. Thank you for your vast wisdom. Btw the next time your in a low level dungeon and the tank sucks chances are they were afraid to ask for help.

  11. #11
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    Well...if you want to twink toons for fun and profit, prot warrior (or even arms) is definitely not for you. You'll just be a slow moving meat shield at level 19, without utility or damage to speak of. At 29 you'll have 1 point to choose between Last stand, con blow or warbringer in tier 3 talents. 39 looks promising though, you'll get all the utilities from tier 3 and 1 point to spend on devastate.

  12. #12
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    Thank you for the helpful info. So far execept for an occasional twinked out rogue im doing well. I can even handle the gone crazy ShS/ambush craze going on right now. But ive bumped into the 20s and im going to see where it takes me. Ive always dps every class ive played. I dont really want to tank dungeons because of too many 12 year olds that dont have patience to know your learning and if they are at all decent they wont die in ragegire chasm...lol. So ill give it to 29 then ill make the decsision to stay prot are go arms.

  13. #13
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    49 twink prot warrior was kinda fun. i just did it to get achievements before moving on.


    my off spec is fury right now, but that kinda screws up my dps gear for pvp because i don't need all that extra hit. so i'm thinking about either going back to arms off-spec, or just having two prot specs for pve/pvp. that way i can just go back to STR. it'd suck for rolling on dps gear in raids but whatever i've got t10/264 to fall back on for the moment.


    it sucks to depend on vengeance for the more intense dps... but i guess that's one reason to still wear a bunch of resil instead of pve pieces.


    i also decided the imp. victory rush or whatever is stupid. gotta spec out of that soon too.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by magoo_lc1 View Post
    Im sorry i forget that everyones a complete pro at a brand new class when they start it. Ive read alot on here and im sure there our others who just lurk because they get laughed at for asking a question but most of the info is for high level warrs. Thank you for your vast wisdom. Btw the next time your in a low level dungeon and the tank sucks chances are they were afraid to ask for help.
    what i meant was that PvP is situational and there isn't such thing as rotation in pvp. Use all u can in given moment to survive/kill other player. I'm not sayin i'm PRO cuz i definitly ain't one.

  15. #15
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    i'm not going to switch over, because blood elves are dumb... but if you're thinking about rolling a prot warrior for pvp purposes, you might consider a belf or goblin...

    Blood Elf
    arcane torrent (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=69179)

    extra silence, since that's a lot of what you'll be doing to help everyone else in bg/arena. and extra rage, since people probably won't be focusing on you and feeding you rage. i assume it's not on the same DR as any of your other stuff either. so you can probably make a caster shut the hell up until they're dead, or keep a healer from doing anything significant while your team does the killing for you.

    Goblin
    Rocket Barrage (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=69041)
    not sure how much damage this will actually be doing yet, but could be good to get an extra shot off at someone who's running away or kiting you, or if it's anything like heroic throw, you might be able to cast it mid-charge for a little extra damage during that stun.

    Rocket Jump (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=69070)
    Prot Warriors already have pretty excellent mobility and this makes it even better. great for saving a teammate, especially if intervene is on cd. hell, you might even get the Quick Cap achievement which i still haven't managed. p.s. i'm wondering if casters will be able to get on top of crates and such in arena and basically snipe you...

    Time is Money (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=69042)
    Attack speed will be good for prot for rage generation more than damage. Couldn't hurt anything.



    although, i'm tauren so i have war stomp and a little extra hp, and i look cooler, so that'll do for me. goblins, it appears, have better racials than any other class now. i almost feel bad for worgen. plus i noticed the new races, in fact even the BC races, have more or better racials than the original eight. and not as much stuff that only helps certain classes (my troll warlock is really gonna benefit from that bow specialization)... maybe they'll hook us up at some point.


    oh yeah, and i don't know anything about alliance. i think extra worg speed could help you for mobility, plus extra crit, and nature/shadow resistance... i could be wrong but are they the only race with two resistances? not that resistance is very useful anymore... that's another thing that needs to get buffed...
    Last edited by Lautoa; 12-06-2010 at 02:20 AM. Reason: forgot allies existed.

  16. #16
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    I have recently been using Prot for my pvp spec on my warrior, and I was so used to arms that it is a treat to actually beable to survive and LOL at mages and warlocks that get spell reflected and one shot themselves or the arms warriors that think they can take me on when i just dodge and parry everything. but I would eventually like to go back to Arms, just curious, If I have to use a PvE weapon, all I keep seeing is Haste and Mastery on them. Is haste really that important for an Arms warrior? If not, what stats should I be looking for on the weapon. And as far as prot, I was wondering if I should just lace myself up in Resilience gems, or keep the stam mastery thing i got going on and just get res off the gear.. Thank you for your time.

  17. #17
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    I'm bumping this for 4.2 because I decide to keep doing pvprot even though it's extremely nerfed. I also had my account closed for a while til recently.

    Currently I'm using my tanking weapon with mending on it, but survivability isn't really something to be worried about once I start getting more pvp gear.

    I also spend most of my time in Def Stance. Conventional wisdom has always said do Battle Stance for the extra damage, but I feel like I use some of the Def abilities often enough, I'd rather stance dance if I need Hamstring or whatever because Revenge hits pretty hard to make up for some of the dps loss.


    I've been doing bg's, and find myself doing a lot of things like just trying to waste the other team's time, occupying a bunch of people while my flag runner's going by, or keeping them busy so they can't cap a node, or whatever. strategic things that don't necessarily net kills but, in my opinion, help the team win.

    Anyway, i wanted to talk about enchants. Landslide (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=74246) is the obvious choice... but I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on Hurricane (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=74223) for arenas and whether it might help with rage generation... since that's one of the biggest problems. It's probably not worth it, just a question. While +50 Mastery is the obvious shield ench for PvE, there's not much that's very sexy for PvP, but I do like Pyrium Shield Spike because it makes the mastery you do have more helpful, turning your block chance into palatable dps. Oh, and I use dps enchants instead of pvp enchants on my shoulder/head, by the way.

    A while ago I had decent success with the African Turtle Cleave (prot warrior, mm hunter, holy paladin... or sometimes rdruid) comp in arenas. I also was considering hpal/arms/prot or hpal/dk/prot but that might be too much melee. Might try something like that this season.

    Oh yeah, and this thread never addressed the second level arms/fury talents for those extra 5 pts after 80, and maybe how some of that will affect the Prot tree. I want feedback because it's a little murkier now that the spec just isn't that good anymore.

    Arms
    • Tactical Mastery
      http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12676
      Depends on your play style and how much you stance dance. Rage is pretty important in arenas because you're not going to get focused.
    • Second Wind

      http://www.wowhead.com/spell=29838
      Normally, this would seem like a no-brainer for PvP, to keep you from sitting and watching yourself die while you're stunned, but you shouldn't be dying that easily in the first place. Rage is the attractive part of this talent.
    • Deep Wounds

      http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12867
      More dps good. Typical 1-hander weapon dmg bad. You'll actually probably getting lots of crits in PvP gear, and if you have points in Hold the Line, Sword and Board, and Incite. I'd have to see some numbers on how much damage this talent would actually add.
    • Drums of War

      http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12963
      Seems lame, BUT for arenas, part of your job is going to be laying down Demo. Shout and throwing out Int. Shout aaaaand Pummel, Pummel, Pummel (I miss Shield Bash dearly). Not to mention, Challenging Shout can be good for taunting nearby pets without having to take the time to target them. Pet walks by, Challenging Shout, Thunder Clap, takes the pain out of the ass of your teammate. I'd love to hear some feedback on this.
    Fury
    • Executioner

      http://www.wowhead.com/spell=20503
      If you're in BS and you're trying to kill someone off, Execute is nice, but from experience in my Fury spec, the buff falls off too fast... This talent is designed for finishing off raid bosses... for PvP it's hard to get more than one or two stacks before somebody dies or gets healed out of being able to keep hitting Execute, plus in Prot you're changing targets a lot, and if it were an attack power buff or something it'd be good for bursting somebody down, but attack speed probably isn't gonna help you besides getting a little extra rage.
    • Booming Voice

      http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12835
      Rage is pretty cool.
    • Rude Interruption

      http://www.wowhead.com/spell=61221
      You're going to be doing a lot of interrupting, and this could really help you finish off a caster. Wish it proc'd off Heroic Throw too, but obviously it's not designed for us.
    • Piercing Howl

      http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12323
      Classic PvP talent. My problem is I always forget to use it and am hesitant to waste a GCD on it when I'm trying to burst. Always good for kiting classes when your stuns/int. shout/hamstring and charge/intercept/hleap have all been used up, or for rogues trying to get behind you.
    Prot
    There are some changes in Cataclysm that might affect your approach to this.
    • Last Stand

      http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12975
      Now that all warriors have Rallying Cry, this point seems a big question mark and I say ditch it if you have a dedicated PvProt spec. Anyone argue with that? 10 seconds more health to yourself vs. Team boost for 10 sec. less. Especially since you're not likely getting focused, you're gonna find yourself using Rallying Cry in arena to save somebody else more than yourself.
    • Hold the Line

      http://www.wowhead.com/spell=84621
      We've seen mastery being huge for PvE, so Hold the Line is def for that. But it's more about the crit boost than the critblock boost in PvP and this is one of the only ways to get any extra dps out of whatever parry you get from Str. Any thoughts?
    • Shield Specialization

      http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12725
      Not that important in PvE because you're probably not gonna have too serious rage problems tanking, but in PvP this could help. However, the 25 sec (20 glyphed) cooldown isn't sexy.

    You might not even get into the second level of Arms or Fury talents if you wanna take 5 from each. I still am not a huge fan of the Thunderstruck/Blood and Thunder talents.

    Feedback, please! I might be a total idiot and wrong about everything, you know.
    Last edited by Lautoa; 07-05-2011 at 12:20 AM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osyriss View Post
    If I have to use a PvE weapon, all I keep seeing is Haste and Mastery on them. Is haste really that important for an Arms warrior? If not, what stats should I be looking for on the weapon.
    hit cap first obviously. there's probably a thread on arms that'll give you some discussion on stat priority.

    And as far as prot, I was wondering if I should just lace myself up in Resilience gems, or keep the stam mastery thing i got going on and just get res off the gear.. Thank you for your time.
    prot... you won't need more resilience, stam, or mastery than you get off the gear. you're already gonna be tough to kill, getting maximum burst dps is the hard part. don't gem or reforge for survival AT ALL. in fact, i reforge the mastery into crit/haste and wish i could do that with resil.
    Last edited by Lautoa; 07-07-2011 at 01:25 PM.

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