4.0.1 - Let's Talk Numbers

[theodisius]

I have a palatank and a warrior tank. With both, I have reforged avoidance to mastery. I am not going to spend money on regemming, but as I get new gear, I am rethinking stacking pure stamina gems and contemplating using mixed avoidance/stamina gems if the bonus is +6 stamina or better. (This is also what Digren is recommending in his gearing guide to 4.01 for palatanks on maintankadin).

Pre-patch, I would want a +12 bonus - i.e. avoidance had a very low value to me. But post-patch, getting closer to being block capped will smooth damage spikes. The argument that used to be made for EH trumping avoidance - avoidance is spikey - now is inverted. Getting more avoidance to get block capped makes things less spikey.

I think we are getting close to the BC world where the first priority of a tank was being uncrushable. IIRC, a crushing blow did 50% more damage. Now, an unblocked blow does 43% more damage (100/70=1.43).

My pala main is now blockcapped. My warrior tank does not have the gear to do that easily yet, but I don't see stacking block as an all or nothing thing. Even if there is a chance of an unblocked hit, reducing that chance will still make your damage less spikey. Yes, there will still be some spikes, but fewer of them.

I also think getting a lot more block has helped my warrior with rage in heroics.

Bottomline, I think 4.01 makes avoidance stats more worthy of consideration, both to reforge to mastery and to contribute towards the 102.4% needed for block cap. For example, I now use the Corpse Tongue Coin reforged for mastery - it goes a long way to getting my pala block capped without regemming from pure stamina. (Unlike Digren, I have not done the maths on the most efficient way to sacrifice stamina to get more avoidance, but trinkets can certainly be cheap and easy ways of making the tradeoff).

[Tadamitsu]

ok
except for some of the diversions, this has been a very good thread..
I have been trying to figure out what stats to reforge to what, and what stats are needed at what levels.

Looks like block is a max if you can
Hit you should soft cap.
Mastery/Exp you need to softcap ?? 20?
stam more is always better for EHP

Steal from dodge then parry for above
is it worth it to steel from str?

This is of course a temp measure because when cata comes out in 7 weeks 5 days, I agree I think the new instances will have a different feel and require something else.

[Andenthal]

-Hit has a hard cap only, not a soft cap. You should prioritize it below the expertise soft cap. The ratings were changed recently, so I forget how much rating you need to get 8%.
-According to some, there is either a tooltip bug, or bosses now Dodge less than before. 22 Expertise soft cap
-You can not reforge primary stats (Stam, STR, Agil, Int). I believe you can reforge to/from Spirit, as I think it's now technically considered a secondary stat. (irrelevant for tanks, but useful to other classes).

[marklar]

There are a few hot button topics, one being avoidance vs. EH. The argument has been had. It's all over the site. We don't need to 'spur' a discussion on it until Cata when we can really see how the mechanics/healing has changed. Arguing this isn't going to go anywhere, and that is why Kaze will close the thread. I'm tired of seeing this argument also.

so don't read it? there are people, like myself, who are interested in tanking now, not in cataclysm, so looking at gearing choices now matters. i'm pretty sure there are other threads where people can discuss cataclysm theory. saying the topic has been discussed to death is ridiculous because it all happened pre-4.0.1, and pretty much everything has changed. if there's another thread going on that i missed, i'll be happy to head over there.

also, i never mentioned EH vs. avoidance and i certainly never said block was avoidance; i was talking about the value of avoidance + block, aka getting close to being "unhittable". what has always killed tanks as long as i've been playing is successive, unmitigated hits. guaranteeing (or almost guaranteeing) that you won't take more than 70% of a given hit makes an enormous difference and you do NOT have to actually reach "unhittability" to make it worth stacking the stats.

for those short of 102.4% unhittability, block is not EH and it's not avoidance - it's block. "RNG EH" isn't really a good way to describe it either. it's new, it's different, and it needs to be looked at differently. i've seen many posts from people who seemed interested in this new mechanic; i don't see why it's not worth talking about.

if tankspot has become a place where a few moderators determine how everyone should gear and any lock any post that disagrees with them, then what's the point of having forums in the first place?

[Helistar]

if tankspot has become a place where a few moderators determine how everyone should gear and any lock any post that disagrees with them, then what's the point of having forums in the first place?

EDIT: disregard what I wrote before. I found how to report inappropriate moderator behaviour and did it.