Reply With QuoteAny thoughts on glyphs? I haven't really dug my way through the different glyphs yet (still trying to sort out my 'lock main)... damn class mechanic changes... :P
OK so I decided to make this post after the lack of druids posting now. So spam tanking is gone for druids and some new abilities are added Swipe now having a CD and Mangle being the equivalent of shield slam for druids. I am looking for more incite from end game druids and criticism is welcome.
This is my current spec
http://wowtal.com/#k=-wbDAacz.a5o.druid.
Before you start to read the only 2 abilities that I left maul on were mangle and lacerate which seemed to regulate my rage a lot better those that lack the macro
#showtooltip
/cast ABILITY HERE
/cast [nomod] !Maul
Glyphs Im using
Prime
Glyph of Lacerate
Glyph of Mangle
Glyph of Berserk
Major
Glyph of faerie Fire
Glyph of Frenzied Regeneration
Glyph of Maul
Minor
Glyph of Challenging Roar (only must for minor)
My AOE rotation looks something like
FF
Swipe
Lacerate x3
Pulverize
Swipe
and Using Mangle on any mobs that the DPS where climbing on
My Single Target Rotation
FF
Mangle
Lacerate x3
Pulverize
The Ability Pulverize is a great new add because of the Reforging just added. Pulverize gives us 9% Crit when every we consume the x3 stacks of lacerate allowing use to reforge a lot of Crit to our mastery which for druids is out equivilent of a passive sheild block with no CD only a 50% chance to be applied.
Another thing to add i love that Enrage increases damage and reduces with our 4 set.
Last edited by Épic; 10-14-2010 at 01:02 AM. Reason: glyphs being added
Any thoughts on glyphs? I haven't really dug my way through the different glyphs yet (still trying to sort out my 'lock main)... damn class mechanic changes... :P
Glyphs added
Hi,
I am looking at your rotation and see yesterday after the patch I was using the same. But I was really disappointed from the group behavior. Everybody were smashing AOEs and one dps died twice during the dungeon (it was HC Utgarde Pinnacle). Everytime I pulled a group of mobs and swiped and then applied lacerate while literally waiting for the swipe to become available again, always 1 or 2 mobs ran away to dps. Then it was a little bit of chaos. Do you think people will now not be leaving the groups evertime they will be put together with bears as tanks? :-) I will try today my DK tank to see if something similar happened to DK. If not I cannot imagine anybody will play bear tank. But I may be wrong.
A good start with the spec but you've overlooked [Endless Carnage] which is amazing since it extends the length of your pulverise buff. Makes it a lot easier to fit in a rotation between refreshing pulverise, rather than just restacking lacerate in the meantime!
Glyphs are solid, can't see any real alternatives at the moment.
We boldly jumped right back into ICC last night and I'm intrigued by what happened. Threat is...... hard work. AoE, it's just sorta vanished compared to how it used to be and since i'm somewhat uncertain of my rotation now, the threat I was putting out was spikey and inconsistent. I think there's the opportunity for feral threat to be really outstanding but I need to do a little more research first
Also, I got an addon for showing me Vengeance levels and it got me thinking about the balance between threat and mitigation we now are faced with:
Our mastery buffs the size of our savage defence absorbs, which are calculated as a percentage of our attack power.
Our attack power grows with Vengeance as we take damage which will in turn buff the size of our Savage Defence absorbs as well.
*However* My dodge is through the roof since yesterday and I'm not seeing Vengeance stacking as high as it perhaps could which, I theorise, is going to gimp my threat and the potential size of my SD absorbs. I don't want to lower my dodge too far, in fear of losing survivability but I'm such a threat whore, I'm going to try it out.
It's a balancing act!
Admittedly I don't have solid maths to back any of that up, it's just theorifications and musings.
Anyone got any thoughts? How did your first forays into 4.0.1 feral tanking go?
I think for bosses youll want your lacerates AFTER your pulverize instead of before. You still do just as many of each attack, but you allow for some lacerate bleed damage while you mangle and farie fire. It's not a huge difference in dps, but it is still more dps
So rotation instead would be
FF
Mangle
Pulverize
Laceratex3
If you want the quick crit buff, then do your rotation once, but I would suggest switchin to this quickly on long fights to maximze dps
The other benefit to this is more chances to crit, so more rage, more savage defense included in the more damage
I'm loving the new tank single target damage...I can hold 6k pretty ez on voa bosses, 12k on fester, and around 8-9k on other ICC bosses. Aoe has definitely gotten a lot harder. Keep mangle ready to grab a stray mob, and you have to be a lot more careful when you swipe. A couple times i rushed in swiping to find myself hittin one guy and nothing on my bar to hit the rest ;-) (Challenging Roar is actually useful now!)
As far as glyphs...i used Glyph of Rebirth instead of Faire Fire. The reason is that i've never had range issues with it. However in raids I am usually the first to pop my brez, either when other tank taunts off or rotface stops hittin me to do sllime spray. Having them come back with full health keeps them from dying soon as they are up ;-)
Last edited by moshemorgan; 10-14-2010 at 03:41 AM.
First wanna start off with the first post,
Talents allready been said Carnage is insanely a great deal for longer pulverize buff, so more time to fit in a extra attack before using it again.
spec i'm using on my bear is (inc glyphs): http://wowtal.com/#k=-wl2l9WBw.a5o.druid.RM4NCL
After a little research it might even be possible to drop 1 point out of Pulverize and put that in Brutal impact allready or maybe fill up that lose point in Primal Madness since when u are using the single target rotation u probebly wont be using more then 8-10 seconds of the pulverize buff before u reapply it might be 11 if u put in that mangle proc. so since the basic pulverize gives u 10 seconds to reapply it u will have way to much unused seconds left when u reapplyed it, so either when u got almost no problems with imput lag and seriously always hit the rotation only i would suggest even taking 2 points out, or if u got a little imput lag or just wanna be sure u never lose it go for 1 point but 2 points is just to much.
Could suggest taking the 2 points out of master shapeshifter and going for Brutal Impact for more interrupts, but we druids always have been counting on our dps to do that so why change it now :P(just stay lazy and let them handle it) other reason i did shapeshifer is allready beeing ready for lvl 85 when going for: http://wowtal.com/#k=-wlKnmsyU.a5o.druid.RM4NCL
Atm Maul is a complete waste of rage, costs 30 rage (will be 15 if i saw it right in cata) but it does almost no dmg, did a little test run while farming my rep and all i could get was a 5k dubble crit with the glyph, thats fairly low compaired to that i did easy 12-15k dubble crits prepatch, eventho its not a fair equation since the glyph only goes for 50% dmg not the full 100% and its now instant and not overwriting white hits anymore.
Prime Glyphs i agree on those are the only glyphs u can use;
Major glyphs is hard since there are 2 that are usefull, frenzy and maul, rebirth itsn't much worth anymore since its a raidwide 30 minutes CD if any druid in the raid uses it and thorns will get u out of form, hopefully getting patched, so thats not so good either since u will probebly be one shotted by then. and the rest of the glyphs are either Pvp, balance or resto yeah ok kitty too.
Minor glyphs i'm using challenging roar, mark and then unburden rebirth since that saves a extra bagslot to carry more trash/gear/epics/funstuff with u.
Well i cant really comment on the AoE rotation since i haven't been able to test that out yet in raids but to me AoE tanking is kinda dead for every class /sadface
Since they lowered the amount of dmg the DoT of lacerate does (294 over 15 sec, with my current gear in bear without buffs) so the DoT dmg is quite useless, but is it worthy enough to reapply 3 stacks every time or wait a few seconds and then use pulverize.
i would suggest the Single target rotation of the first post then:
FF
Mangle
3x lacerate
Pulverize
instead of the:
FF
Mangle
Pulverize
3x lacerate
Only thing i'm not 100% sure off is do u wanna use mangle if the CD resets or do u wanna finish the 3x lacerate/pulverize, cuz u might lose some dps with the lacerate dot but u gain the threat from the mangle, not sure about that so i hope someone thats good and experienced in running numbers and stuff like that could get some more details on that, with or without proof i dont care
Well thats for now if i can think of more i will post itif anyone got any comments about it please feel free to post them, positive and negative, since we all human and we all can make mistakes, nobody is perfect
KFC
How important is hit cap now for bear tanking? I've heard we need to capped and we don't have to be capped.
I don't have a set rotation yet for this since I haven't got a lot of play time in with the new spec and all, but I was in a heroic yesterday and I was using demo roar a lot. It seemed to help grab aggro on the targets so i could hit them all with a swipe. I would tab mangle/lacerate and pulverize to maintain threat, and I never seemed to lose mobs except for the expected ret paladin opening with divine storm.
I read Enrage as increaseing damage taken to us by 10% and our 4pc decreases by 12% so were only getting 2%. they need to reword our 4pc from decreasing armor to dreceasing damage taken.
I ran ICC25 patch night. I tanked first on Rotface I came in 2nd on damage behind a mage. My top damage source was maul. I know with the stacks my damaged is doubled but that would double all abilities maul was first mangle came in 2nd
Going to start with your post Aoe tanking is not that bad if you are in a 5man and have the 12sec to build up. No one will pull right off of you. As far as ICC 25man with the current rotation I am using I have no problem because of MD's and TOT and with the new thorns it does not hurt if you have you druid heal chuck that on you when you pull.Originally Posted by Sluni
Yeah, for single tanking, get the glyph of thorns, cast it on yourself before the pull and then swipe to start with. That should keep mobs on you fairly indefinitely.
Now for the rest of the post on single target I am pulling over 7kdps in 10mans. With Carnage I feel like its a nice talent but almost wasted Pulverize it self is an amazing threat gen almost if not better then mangle and with a glyphed lacerate with maul is the only thing you would using when mangle is not up and swipe is on CD. you really have no problems keeping up pulverize unless you lag a lot. Now for the last post Pulverize would be a waste if you did not have the stacks of lacerates up its were you make the money with damage and threat and also gets you the 9%crit
i didn't seem to have much problems in the few heroics i ran last night. my first few pulls where iffy but after i got the hang of that and rearranging my keys to better fit what i was now using it didn't seem to be all that bad.
i haven't given myself a flat out rotation but it doesn't seem to all that difficult to set up. it doesn't change too much. besides the fact of not stacking the lacerate 5 times and using the pulv after just the first 3. so to me it just like staking lacerate 4 times just have to hit a different key is all for the 4th time.
as long as the dps doesn't blow their load early then i was fine. i just warn them a head of time that now swipe is on a CD to you aoe pull i ain't ganna aoe pull it back off ya =D seems to have worked for me for the most part.
only thing that sucks it trying to teach the ppl who didn't start playing wow till wrath was out what CC is... i miss the pre BC rule of the "5 sec rule" or was it like 3 sunders then go at it. lol that or even "target of target" its like shit i charge in and start on my main target and the 3 dps all decide to dps their own mobs. (i love pugs bwt.... jk)
/castsequence reset=6 faerie fire (feral), Mangle, Lacerate, Lacerate, Lacerate, Pulverize
/cast maul
1111111111111111111111111111
/yawn
You don't want to maul all the time.
You do want to swipe.
You don't want to faerie fire.
You want to mangle whenever it procs.
You don't want to pulverize whenever lacerate is at 3 stacks.
Sure, you can castsequence if you want to, but you're leaving a ton of threat on the table.
Not so sure if i dont wanna pulverize ever time my lacerate ticks 3 times since lacerate ticks are super low atm with my current gear, mostly around ICC 10/25 so not really night end or anything but still decent my ticks did nothing more then 200, kinda rubbish if u ask me
Do the ticks from each stack of lacerate count separately for procing the free mangle? Put another way, is the procrate of free mangles the same for Laceratex1 vs Lacerate x3?
For some reason I thought the Berserk talent's free Mangles were based on "is lacerate ticking at all?", not on the number of stacks/number of lacerates. If any stack on any mob proc'ed it, seems like trash packs you'd just Lacerate-tab-Lacerate to ensure constant free Mangles.
FWIW I've been doing Laceratex3 > Pulverize > Laceratex1 to get the 9% crit buff & start the free mangle-proc-chance rolling again, then I prioritize Mangle/FF/Maul usage ahead of getting back to a 3-stack Lacerate. This lets me get the higher threat abilities used sooner, and there's plenty of time to slip in the extra 2 Lacerates before I have to re-Pulverize to keep the crit buff.
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