Understanding Fury in 4.0

[Garbid]

while damage per rage is an important statistic, when caring about full on damage output, you want highest damage output priority. so if HS is your hardest hitting, you prioritize your rage for it. and work to maintain a safe haste level to keep up HS, while the rest of your rotation.

If you were only getting 30 rage per 1.5 sec (hypothetical) you'd be doing just pure HS, mine were hitting for an average of 11-12k.
Over a course of 1 min you'd be doing 40 attacks.
In the same time with same rage I'd be doing 6x Raging blows and HS the rest of my rage which is in te neighbourhood of 36x HS.
My raging blow is only hitting for about 1k less then HS. So overall dmg by you is 480k and mine would be 432+66=498.
Each time you hit Raging Blow your hitting with both weapons, so even if your log says it's only hitting for 5.5k on average, each time you hit the button your making 2 attacks for 7.5k mainhand, 3.5k offhand (guessed ratio but you get what I mean). Totalled to 11k hit on averrage for pressing a 20rage Raging blow, HS gives 12k on average but for 30 rage.

In fights where rage isn't an issue, you'd be able to keep up BT-RB-BT-filler anyways with spamming HS so that doesn't really matter, it only matters when rage is low.

[Ship]

Changed my stats to 27% hit. Rage is no longer any problem. Also doing a hell of a lot higher dps on bosses now.
But I do see, in recount, misses. Read some where that actual hitcap is 28% for warriors. Looking on the hit stats, 27% says no misses on lvl83 boss, but I do miss slightly. Expertise above 6,5% gives no chance for bosses to dodge but a small chance of parry. I see parry as well as a dps in recount. Glansing is also a small decrease. But what worries me is the fact that a few percent is missed, with 27,04% hit.

[Ion]

You shouldn't be seeing parries (or, at least, not often enough to worry about them when gearing) since they only happen from the front.

As to misses...unless you had some hit debuff you shouldn't be seeing any with 738+ hit rating...I'd be interested to see the log if you did, though.

[DarkraveR]

So what is best now to reforge haste>hit or crit>hit? And should i gem +10 strength +10 haste or +10 strength +10 crit?

[Ion]

So what is best now to reforge haste>hit or crit>hit? And should i gem +10 strength +10 haste or +10 strength +10 crit?

I haven't been willing to spend vast quantities of cash to determine the exact answer to this, however I personally reforged crit to hit and gemmed some hit too (in blue sockets) and gemmed str/haste in yellow sockets with pretty decent results..

[Unger]

check to make sure that the hit you are looking at is your melee hit and not your spell hit (which was higher on my page than melee hit). That would account for the misses.

[Bung]

I reforged my gear to reach 27% hit with 25% haste. It wasn't very effective with only 32% crit. I scaled back my haste to 18.5% and my crit is now at 38.5%. I'm doing much more dps.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n=Bungholiolio

It is similar if not more damage then prior to the patch. My assumption is that there is a balance needed between haste and crit (although I'm not sure at what point). Gimping crit for haste seems to not work very well. It could be based on weapon speed but I'm not a math person. On another topic...I've seen warriors still using cleave in multiple mob situations. I haven't seen much about cleave in this thread. Does anyone think that cleave is still that effective? I'm assuming based on recount that the warriors I ran with were replacing HS with cleave in aoe situations. I was also wondering if whirlwind was actually worth using. It is +6 or more mobs use whirlwind? Take whirlwind off my bar? Just my thoughts....discuss.

[Thegreatme]

Ok, I finally finished what I started. Enrage uptime equation is complete I'm still debating putting the fully expanded version in the thread, but the explanation of how everything works is there so you can figure it out if you so desire.

EDIT: I fully expanded everything in word. it is hilarious. the equation is 12 pages long at 11pt font, and has 48,508 characters.

[Bung]

Reforging Haste to 27% and reducing crit to 32%...fail? IS there a better balance? Someone please give me some advice cause I see many warriors still with 40% crit.

[Thegreatme]

there is no hard set answer of "get exactly this much haste." once you get ~20% haste unbuffed, chances are that you are going to start running in to rage capping issues once raid damage is introduced, and as such haste starts to become devalued. I would suggest reading this post because it does a good job of explaining this, though with out doing any calculations my gut feeling is that his numbers might be a tiny bit low for the value of haste.

[Bung]

Thanks I read that link. Very informative. So at this point it seems the theory is that the "war academy spec" of 3/31/2 benefits someone with high crit numbers and less haste. The "incite" spec of 2/31/3 is much better for someone who can't manage to get high crit levels after reforging. Making haste the better stat. In both cases hard capping hit and soft capping expertise is a must. Every player has different gear so there seems to be two viable options. Gemming strength seems ideal. Strength based gear is far better than agility based gear. So if you go 3/31/2 you should reforge hit from haste on gear, if you go 2/31/3 you should reforge hit from crit. The end results should be something like this (edited to include priority):

3/31/2 Spec
27% hit
10%+ haste
45%+ crit
expertise (23) on character sheet until level 85 is avail then (26)
Priority BT>RB>slam, HS when rage is 60+

2/31/3 Spec
27% hit
20-25% haste
33%+ crit
expertise (23) on character sheet until level 85 is avail then its (26)
Priority is HS>BT>RB>slam

[Ion]

It's apparently 23: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/27397...d-fixed-as-is/

Due to recalibrating expertise for Cataclysm, level 80-83 creatures (which includes bosses) dodge and parry less, so you need less expertise, 23, to be exact. Sorry we didn't announce this. I would classify it as an unintended consequence (though not unknown) and not a desired change on our part.

At level 85, you will need 26 again.

Which meshes fairly well with what people were seeing in testing.

[Thegreatme]

If anyone wants to help me fix what ever dumb mistakes I keep making with this enrage uptimes spreadsheet, I greatly appreciate it.
http://www.filefront.com/17455329/en...eadsheet.xlsx/
there are notes in the spreadsheet to help get you started.

Currently stat inputs seem to be scaling properly, but my equations are full of error right now and are giving inaccurate results, and I can't seem to isolate said errors for the life of me.

I would also appreciate if people would post some Sarufang/festergut parses, and include their MH/OH base speeds, how much haste they have, and their buffed crit. This will help me get a feel for how much enrage uptime people are seeing at varying stat values so I can make sure the spreadsheet is at least fairly accurate.

If you have any questions about the spreadsheet feel free to ask, if you help me fix the problems so the spreadsheet can be more accurate, I will give you my first born.

[Sa1k3n]

What is the UI called that you are using for this Video?

[Thegreatme]

don't mind my math. I've been doing everything the hard/dumb/wrong/long/etc. way. I'll get my spreadsheet working and accurate probably by the end of the day. then I can start working in calculating the value of mastery in to the spreadsheet.

as for my UI, it's custom, so I suppose you could call it TGM UI. the link in my sig is old as hell and I'll probably update it sometime before the expansion drops but I make no guarentees/

[Thegreatme]

alright, I'm fairly certain the spreadsheet is at least fairly accurate now:
http://www.filefront.com/17462612/en...eadsheet.xlsx/
take it and break it by comparing it to every single target parse you can get your hands on.


includes:
Enrage stuff
mastery stuff
Rage stuff


I'll see what I can do about making it even more accurate so that it can account for things like trinket procs and what not. I also plan to see what I can do about making it accurate for single minded fury as well (currently it's only accurate for TG)

[Shinodon]

I am not sold on this 27% hit. My guild ran 25 Halion Sat night and myself and one other fury warrior had 27% hit and our other fury warrior had not changed a thing to hit , and he only have like 11% and he was still hanging right there with us. If not pulling ahead a time or two but in the end we still came out above, but only by 1k'ish and us Wariors were still in top 5 before the split.

So I dropped down to 22% hit and I will see how this goes.

[Nez]

I would suggest you use a non-moving fight for comparing your DPS. Hallion is pretty RNG. With hit that low on anything that does not have a ton of raid damage you will be rage starved. He was just good at standing if Fire for rage. lol

[Shinodon]

I am pretty sure he wasn't. it was kinda the same on os 25 zerg. I dropped to 22% hit and I am still seeing the same dps. no rage loss.

[Thegreatme]

Both of those fights have plenty of AOE damage that can skew the value of rage generation. no matter what way you reforge your gear, the DPS gain/loss is never going to be massive, but it will be there.

EDIT:

I worked some more on my spreadsheet today to make it more accurate. I'll keep the link to the most recent version my original post