Understanding Fury in 4.0

[Krenian]

Lemme find a parsing from top dps warriors and get back to you on that one..

[Thegreatme]

Ion with my long formula I would think you should be able to take the likelyhood of being enraged at a given second and then divide it by 6, which would tell you the likely hood of being enraged when RB comes off CD. unfortunately this doesn't account for when RB is off CD and you are waiting to be enraged.

[Thegreatme]

you can also just use the ability damage formula to determine it's exact DPS. which would be 1.25((((ap/14)*3.3+dMH) + 0.9375(((ap/14)*3.3+dOH))) there's other DIM's to multiply the whole thing by but you get the idea

[Krenian]

Seems like you can look anywhere between 9 to 11% of your damage being RB at this time. Give or take.

[Ion]

Being Enraged isn't the only way to ... be enraged.

Crap.

Well having Enrage up isn't the only way to have Raging Blow available to you (Death Wish obviously works, as does Berserker Rage)...so you might need to waste a global in there to pop another enrage, but honestly, it's got a pretty high usable-time...maybe not quite 100%, but it's pretty close.

And the actual dps done doesn't really help determine the % increase of mastery...sort of. Similar, but not immediately usable...and based on some of the parses I'm looking at it's NOWHERE NEAR 25% of our dps...I've seen as low as 7% and as high as 11%. I THINK I saw it as more than that on mine, but even if it was 15% it'd still be a bad stat...it basically needs to be 25% of our dps just to be close to decent (I THINK mastery is less points-per-rating than hit and haste), and even then it's not good.

So yeah, mastery = bad.

[shiz98]

Doing that would tell you your chance to proc enrage at any given second, but because it does not account for the possible procs from the previous 9 seconds it will not accurately tell you the chance you will be enraged at any given second

Durr, I wrote down the wrong equation. You're absolutely right (well, sorta -- that equation is actually odds of not proccing enrage in a given second, to be pedantic).

Anyway, what I meant to do was this:

uptime = 1 - (0.91 ^ (HPS*9))

Which is your chance to proc enrage within a 9 second window, which is subsequently your uptime. So with, say, 1.33 hits per second we'd get a 68% uptime.

Basically, you're calculating enrage over a 9s window sliding at 1s intervals, which is exactly what you need to calculate enrage uptime.

0s-----1s-----2s-----3s.....9s  = 9s
12%    12%    12%    12%....12% = (1-0.88^9) = (1-0.91^11.97)

[Biocore]

I don't know if its mentioned already or maybe its a bug but during my testing I recognized even recklesness leads to enrage.Maybe it was just luck because when I hit the button maybe a whitehit procced it. Gotta check this again. ^^

[Ion]

It procs Enrage or counts as an enrage for purposes of using Raging Blow?

[Thegreatme]

It counts as an enrage

[Ion]

Yeah...but it looks like he's saying it also auto-procs the talent Enrage...I can't honestly say I paid any attention. I expect that if it does it's not intended anyway.

[Morbíd-Zul'jin]

3-31-2 fury build

might wanna see about changing rotation around. (i know its goofy) i switched mine to:

attack>berserker rage>HS>BT>WW> BT repeat
alternating DW and recklessness to keep one up
throwing in any RB,Slam,Pummel and i can squeeze in
I have been keeping rage up by alternating Battle shout and berserker rage in rotations to keep rage up as needed and when they allow. (just a little rage starved right now)

(reforged)mastery-14.01...hit-252...haste-540..crit at 42.88%(with battle shout).
str is 2189 (w/battleshout) agility-435...attackpower-4845
4 piece T10 set bonus (all 251 pieces except 264 pants) and 264 vendor chest

dps on boss dummy I saw 5-6k dps...(occasionally 7k). Heroic strike crits every swing, and slam and RB are hitting their "bonuses"

just wondering why dps is better... just rage starved is all. (Blizz knows that we are "rage starved" and might be giving us back our "enrage" talent since in B.c. there was same problem for a little bit til talents got fixed again).

also ... servers are still screwy with lag/ latency issues
(dont forget prolly 2-3 hot fix's on the way)

if any of this helps

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Zul'jin&cn=Morbíd&gn=Rageful+Lament

(noticed armory is still screwy... it should update by now)

thoughts? (i know its backwards...but its been decent and till hot fix's come out its best that i came up with.)

[Vong]

Holy crap.

(1-(0.91^((7/6)+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sMH))+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sOH)))) * (0.91^((7/6)+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sMH))+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sOH))))^8)+(1-(0.91^((7/6)+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sMH))+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sOH)))) * (0.91^((7/6)+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sMH))+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sOH))))^7)+(1-(0.91^((7/6)+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sMH))+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sOH)))) * (0.91^((7/6)+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sMH))+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sOH))))^6) + (1-(0.91^((7/6)+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sMH))+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sOH)))) * (0.91^((7/6)+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sMH))+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sOH))))^5)+(1-(0.91^((7/6)+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sMH))+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sOH)))) * (0.91^((7/6)+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sMH))+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sOH))))^4)+(1-(0.91^((7/6)+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sMH))+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sOH)))) * (0.91^((7/6)+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sMH))+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sOH))))^3)+(1-(0.91^((7/6)+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sMH))+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sOH)))) * (0.91^((7/6)+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sMH))+((1/(1-(0.25(1-c)^n))*sOH))))^2)

this to me looks like one of those pictures that when you stare at it long enough you can see something else. Personally I can see an Orc riding a donkey.
Again TGM ty for all the work you do so laymen like me can log on click a few
buttons and just carry on playing and getting the most out of the class.

I salute you sir.

Vong.

[Arahael]

y i am using dual wheel

warriors on bikes ftw

27% hard cap for fury, 8% hard cap for arms

[Kurllkrum]

Massive respect to the maths whizzes here and their formulae. I threw together a post for my guild forum explaining what I personally had done to get my DPS back up to par following the patch, I have also posted here http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...uot-Fury-Guide.

Couple questions that keep coming up in this thread I think I can answer as follows, and some statments I've seen that I'm curious about :

Haste vs Hit

The answer for me is that Hit upto 27% will supply a steady supply of rage, up to the 27% Hard Hit Cap Haste will also suppy rage but we will still be left with periods of missses which will supply no rage. So while total rage gain will be the same you esentially will see (graphically if you were to plot it) a set of stairs with a even number of treads consistantly going up at the same rate if you have Hard Hit Cap. With Haste you will see a steeper set of stairs getting to the same point (total rage gained) over time but with landings occasionally (the misses). So the answer is Hit to Hard Cap and then Haste.

Crit

Crit is producing your flurry uptime and larger hits, so it too has it's worth.

Hit, Haste, Crit comparsions are obviously difficult at this point to model with the effects of enrages, flurry uptime etc and I look forward to TGM answering this to satisfy the min/maxers among us.

Gemming:

With the 5% increase to this primary stat from wearing plate I struggle to see why anyone would want to gem for anything but strenght (save for socket bonuses) when secondary stats can be achieved by a mishmash of reforging.

Reforging:
Most gear I have and see tends to now be Hit+Crit, Crit+Haste and I can't add a stat that already exists on gear my options my options are Crit to Hit or Haste, Haste to Hit or Crit, Hit to Haste or Crit. Under the 27% Hard Hit cap and assuming I still need my Crit for Flurry procs and bigger hits from abilities the answer seems to be Haste to Hit under cap. As for Haste to Crit over cap vs Crit to Haste over cap is going to come down to a look at recount. If your BT+HS macro is fireing HS everytime your BT hits and HS hits will be equal, so reforge for Crit, If they aren't you still haven't got enough rage so keep piling on the haste.

Keep up the good work here with the maths side, thats just my 2cents to try and simplyfy things for those who just want to get back into ICC and finish out the content without feeling like they are being carried.

[term]

This is what I found through a lot of trial and error wearing t-10 set bonus:

I re-gemmed for Strength. Reforged Haste into Expertise to cap and Hit to hard cap. This keeps my rage high w/ no misses. I specced fully into Incite and my priority is HS>BT>RB (filler). When Execute is up I spam execute. Commanding Shout (in raid) and berserker rage to proc RB if everything else is on CD.

I removed Slam and WW from my rotation. The cost/dps output of slam is horrible. I only use WW and Cleave when there are multiples.

When I switched to Exp>Hard Hit>Crit + the HS priority there was an immediate jump in my rage and dps. With Exp and Hard hit capped there is very little rage loss from missed swings allowing for HS/BT spam.

[Yves]

Hi all, thought i jump in and say thanks to all of you for doing your thing.

But tbh, Chinese makes more sense to me then all those calculations

Am i right when i say that
Hit needs to be 27ish %
Crit needs to be 33ish %
Haste needs to be 21ish %
The simple version without the math lol

To get a somewhat decent DPS?

I have not done anything yet to my gear since i was a bit clueless what to do.
So all my gems etc.. are completely wrong and some even have the wrong color/socket(thanks Blizz).

So naturaly my DPS is terrible at 3k or something, 5k if i am lucky.
Though the new rotation takes some getting used to imo specially using the RB

Thanks for all your hard work and testing, we warriors would be clueless without you guys

[Fledern]

Having read all the talk about hit vs haste, how hardcapping hit will get more rage, etc and comparing to my personal experiences in front of the dummy i'm confused.

Before attacking the dummy, regemmed to benefit from all sockets, softcapped my hit, went for str/haste on all my yellow sockets, regemmed some more stuff to lower hit & gain haste. In the process i lost about 10% in crit, gained about 5% haste and 1000 AP. I put out 6K dps on the dummy (and there were only other casters on the dummy, so no extra debuffs or buffs other than my own)

30% of my attacks were white attacks.
Raging Blow glow was always on, if it wasnt on my zerker rage was always available
I had some ragestarvation streaks but those really felt more to me using HS on low rage than actual problems. It certainly didnt feel like anything some raidbuffs couldnt solve.

now, white attacks being 30% of my overall damage, i really dont see why i shoud be aiming for hit hardcapping. It's a pretty far away target and i'd be losing a lot of other stats. Haste is a really nice stat when you're wielding two-handers, it might be less of an issue with SMF, but for titans grip, haste helps a lot. Rage, while not in great abundance, wasnt that much of an issue either, with the zerker rage glyph & shouts usually covering up dry spells pretty well.

In light of the above, does anybody have a logical explanation why hitcapping at the expense of other stats is really worth it?

I'm usually in prot gear so armory links wont do good, i'll put my stats here:

AP: 5221
Haste: 27.75%
Hit: 8.23%
Crit: 40.56%
Expertise 26/26
Mastery: 8
Wielding 2x264 2-handers (shadow's edge & heroic ramaladni's)

[Krenian]

This is what I found through a lot of trial and error wearing t-10 set bonus:

I re-gemmed for Strength. Reforged Haste into Expertise to cap and Hit to hard cap. This keeps my rage high w/ no misses. I specced fully into Incite and my priority is HS>BT>RB (filler). When Execute is up I spam execute. Commanding Shout (in raid) and berserker rage to proc RB if everything else is on CD.

I removed Slam and WW from my rotation. The cost/dps output of slam is horrible. I only use WW and Cleave when there are multiples.

When I switched to Exp>Hard Hit>Crit + the HS priority there was an immediate jump in my rage and dps. With Exp and Hard hit capped there is very little rage loss from missed swings allowing for HS/BT spam.

This is exactly what I'm doing with my Fury Warrior and I've jumped up in DPS myself. I went 2 in War Academy, 3 in Incite and I can see a significant increase.

[Macbrother]

Agree with everyone prioritizing Heroic Strike over the "normal" rotation. With incite, HS just crits too often and too powerful, I'm pushing close to 7k dps on dummies strictly worrying about BT, HS, and RB (in that order) while weaving in shouts and Berserker Rage. When I try and incorporate slam and use HS strictly as a rage dump, I lose roughly ~500dps.

My stats (with battle shout) are:
5400 AP
45.5% crit
24% hit
10% haste

I didn't drastically lower my crit to get hit to hard or increase haste beyond that, because honestly I haven't seen conclusive testing that suggests it.

[Jonas90]

Im hitting like 4-4.5k range Heroic dummy and my GS is lke 5800

So I reforged the majority of crit to get close to the hit cap. My hit is now at 24ish percent
My crit is at 33ish percent
and my haste is at 20ish percent

I have all +20/+34 str gems in my red sockets, except two have +20 expertise
yellow sockets have 10 crit 10 str
blue sockets +20 hit

Is there anything you would recommend? That would up my dps?

Thank you