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Thread: Understanding Fury in 4.0

  1. #1
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    Understanding Fury in 4.0

    Video guide:



    Enrage uptimes spreadsheet:
    http://www.filefront.com/17507977/enrage-uptimes-spreadsheet.xlsx/
    updated on: 11/12/10


    Spec:
    http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#LhZcr...fdZb:kzmcVw0kV
    glyphs are included in the above link
    SMF is awful right now because there are no decent 1h weapons (except black bruise, but it's mainhand only)



    Rotation:

    in ideal circumstances (100% enrage effect uptime):
    0.0 BT
    1.5 RB
    3.0 BT
    4.5 instant slam (there is a 51% of having a slam proc to use for this GCD)
    Repeat

    always use BT on CD, use the other GCD's willy nilly while remembering RB> Slam. use HS when you have plenty of extra rage.

    Sub 20% just spam execute, it hits way harder than any of our other abilities, and the 25% melee haste is amazing
    also HS damage is currently way better than slam damage, so it might be viable to consider prioritizing HS over slam.



    Rage generation:

    essentially the rage formula is
    (weapon constant)* (weapon speed) for your mainhand
    0.5(weapon constant)*(weapon speed) for the offhand


    STATS

    Mastery:

    Deathwish component:
    per 1pt of mastery you gain 0.0626% extra damage from DW
    DW has a CD of 144s with 2/2 intensify rage, and lasts 30s

    30/144=20.83% uptime

    0.626*.2083=0.013041% overall damage increase from DW

    Enrage component:
    per 1pt of mastery you gain 0.313% extra damage from enrage

    I don't have an accurate value for an average enrage uptime, so per the % damage gain from enrage is this:

    0.0313*X
    X= uptime

    it's a nice linear equation, if you can't visualize it just google an online graphing calculator.

    this means that we can add the two together and simply say the value of mastery is

    1pt= (0.0313*X+0.013041)*100 % DPS increase


    PS. the above math is wildly inaccurate. it does not account for increasing RB damage and it doesn't account for a lot of things.

    the spreadsheet is more accurate than the above equation.

    Hit/haste:

    get hit until you are hard capped (27%) then get haste.

    hit is better than haste because of the fact that the 1% increase in swings granted by haste doesn't mean that you are going to have 1% more hits land on the target, where as getting 1% more hit does.

    haste becomes devalued once you are hitting fast enough to generate enough rage so that you can fill the GCD table completely, and have 100%HSF

    Expertise: Get 22 expertise, it's the new soft cap for dodges (GC says it's 23; if this is the case the last point of expertise is extremely devalued)

    Crit:


    Basically, crit results in a higher flurry uptime, which results in more attacks landing on the target, resulting in more possible changes for enrage procs, meaning more RB hits.


    Ability Damage component:

    2*c=a% damage increase
    c% of your attacks deal 2x the damage

    Flurry uptime:
    1-(1-c)^n= b% flurry uptime
    c: %crit
    n: number of hits per 3 swings. n is commonly given a value of 4, but with the recent changes to the rotation it could be as high as 8 at times, I need to do a shit load of testing to figure out a good average value.





    Strength: pretty much the same value as before





    ENRAGE UPTIME:

    =1-(1-.09)^hits/10sec

    here's a graph of the above equation, plus the cutoffs for 1 standard deviation:



    the spreadsheet at the top of this post helps determine the hits/10sec.


    Post your questions/corrections to the above info in this thread, I will probably update this thread 93 times within the next few days so check back often or something
    Last edited by Thegreatme; 11-12-2010 at 03:51 PM.

    |TGM UI |Fury Warrior Guide | How To Use Landsoul's Spreadsheet| The Numbers Game |
    "I am an elitist; I will never accept mediocrity and I openly show no respect for stupidity"


  2. #2
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    TGM - thanks

    This is the type of budding theory and why that I am looking for!
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  3. #3
    I am confused by what the hit cap is now. Is it still 8% or is it now 27%?

    And if it is 27% for both arms and fury should we shoot for 27% cap cause that is what I am at right now but I had to lose haste on all my gear (that use to be arp) to hit the 27% haste cap and I also lost a fair bit of crit I had to give up on my 2 trinkets to ge to 27% hit.

  4. #4
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    ya plz what should be the hit cap now ? i am using dual wheel

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    Toushiro is offline 私はあなたのことをいつも考えています。
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    Mister David, could you go over a SMF spec for us warriors that don't have great two-handers but have snagged threat sticks for tanking.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ciderhelm View Post
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  6. #6
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    Execute spam is back.

    after spending way too much time in front of a target dummy we get this:

    for damage:
    Execute>RB>BT>SLAM!

    execute damage is stupidly high


    more to come


    I plan on using this log as a starting point for determining enrage uptimes. you can also use this log to see how crazy high execute damage is right now.
    Last edited by Thegreatme; 10-12-2010 at 09:28 PM.

    |TGM UI |Fury Warrior Guide | How To Use Landsoul's Spreadsheet| The Numbers Game |
    "I am an elitist; I will never accept mediocrity and I openly show no respect for stupidity"


  7. #7
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    Sorry if this is a silly question but I use Fury as my offspec, is whirlwind confined to only be used in AOE situations now ?
    Marking targets, coordinating CC, and *most importantly*, pulling responsibly so that 9 elites didn't rush us and wipe the party, this Is something I have missed since nov 08.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowen View Post
    Sorry if this is a silly question but I use Fury as my offspec, is whirlwind confined to only be used in AOE situations now ?
    pretty much. You could use it during a free GCD for single target if you are absolutely swimming in rage, but the likelyhood of that happening is pretty low.

    |TGM UI |Fury Warrior Guide | How To Use Landsoul's Spreadsheet| The Numbers Game |
    "I am an elitist; I will never accept mediocrity and I openly show no respect for stupidity"


  9. #9
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    Due to arms seemingly broken, and it costing so much to change gems for 2 months, untill cata comes out, I have decided to respec to fury untill cata comes out, which will be when arms is viable again, so I have done my research on fury rotations and gem choices on the PTR. I think that the best way to gem for fury, at the moment would be a fine balance between haste, mastery and strength. There seems to be enough crit on gear at the moment for you to get flurry most of the times, although the way I am geared, I have 51% crit unbuffed, so that might be different for other people. Bringing the swingtime as low as possible increases the uptime of enrage, which means raging blow, but also means increased damage with everything else. If this is coupled with a high mastery value, it will do some serious dps. However, not everyone can have 50% haste and 100s of mastery. Since haste is on wrath gear, I think it is best to gem for mastery, and have a perfect balance between haste and mastery, while maintaining a good crit chance. I think you can get away with gemming 10 str + another stat gems too in red sockets.
    Arms DPS main spec // Prot warrior tank off-spec

  10. #10
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    alright, looking at the log from my previous posts

    things that I notice:
    enrage will not proc during Deathwish. this is probably due to the "a more powerful spell is already active" mechanic. even if it did proc during DW it wouldn't stack.

    assuming my 40% enrage value is accurate, when i put that in to the equation in my original post, 1pt of mastery results in a 2.5561% DPS increase. Do not take this value as set in stone because the log I am using is me spamming execute, and because of the 25% melee haste I get from doing that, enrage up time is likely to be higher than average.

    as for what to stats to reforge, I personally went with getting a ton of hit, but if I get time today before my guilds raid I will be spending more time in front of the target dummy and will try reforging to other stats and see if there is a change in DPS.

    |TGM UI |Fury Warrior Guide | How To Use Landsoul's Spreadsheet| The Numbers Game |
    "I am an elitist; I will never accept mediocrity and I openly show no respect for stupidity"


  11. #11
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    k, I think I'm getting closer to a good crit model:
    2.66(1+(0.09(0.75(1-(1-c)^n)))*(0.09(7/6+1/sMH+1/sOH)*t)-(0.09(7/6+1/sMH+1/sOH)*t))
    c: crit chance
    n: number of hits per 3 swings
    s: normal swing speed, sMH is mainhand, sOH is offhand
    t: time (fight duration)


    breaking the parts down:

    0.9(0.75(1-(1-c)^n)):
    determines the increase in enrage procs. essentially it's flurry uptime* increased attackspeed*enrage proc chance

    (0.9(7/6+1/s)*t):
    assuming you use a perfect rotation and use HS on CD you will achieve 7/6 hits per second. BT= 1 hit per 3s (1/3) RB is 2 hits per 6s (1/3) HS is 1 hit per 3s (1/3) and Slam is 1 hit per 6s (1/6). then you add swing period in. this gives you hits per second, which you then multiply by enrages chance to proc and get your procs per second. then you multiply procs per second by the fight duration

    the format is % increase of enrage procs times(*) procs per second minus (-) procs per second, then multiply (*) everything by 2.66 which is how many RB hits you gain per 10s of enrage uptime which is the amount

    the result is the number of RB's gained by crit


    I still have a ways to go but it's getting there
    Last edited by Thegreatme; 10-13-2010 at 08:36 AM.

    |TGM UI |Fury Warrior Guide | How To Use Landsoul's Spreadsheet| The Numbers Game |
    "I am an elitist; I will never accept mediocrity and I openly show no respect for stupidity"


  12. #12
    Still being " new " to fury, i've spec'd out to the 3/31/2 spec and set my %'s as below

    27.09% Hit ( armory doesn't seem to support reforging yet ) so it says 24% before that is added in.

    33.XX% Crit

    21.XX Haste

    Can you give the rotation you're using ? I'd be happy to help provide data in the coming days.

    So far on the Dummies when I attack i'm seeing maybe 4500 DPS max; I assume it's my rotation that's way off

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...odhoof&cn=Nixk

  13. #13
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    Thegreatme, you are my hero. I'll be waiting eagerly to read what you have come up with pre-raid. Thank you!

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    yea there is something majorly wrong with my equation. it's located in the procs/second area's and I don't have a fix for it right now, and I have to head to class now so if anyone thinks of a way to fix it, test it and post it.

    |TGM UI |Fury Warrior Guide | How To Use Landsoul's Spreadsheet| The Numbers Game |
    "I am an elitist; I will never accept mediocrity and I openly show no respect for stupidity"


  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thegreatme View Post
    yea there is something majorly wrong with my equation. it's located in the procs/second area's and I don't have a fix for it right now, and I have to head to class now so if anyone thinks of a way to fix it, test it and post it.
    Just stopping by and saying thanks to Thegreatme and others taking the time out of their busy days to help some of us old timers out with equations etc etc. I'm to the age now that I just want to log in and smash then go to bed. THANKS for your time and hard work.

    -T

  16. #16
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    for those of you following my math, and trying to figure out what I am doing wrong, ignore most of the stuff I posted previously as it was designed around an infinite timescale, which I have currently given up on trying to do.

    average hits per second with flurry being accounted for:

    ((7/6)+1/(1-(0.25(1-(1-c)^n))*sMH)+1/(1-(0.25(1-(1-c)^n))*sOH))


    then we can find the chance of a proc not occurring during a given 1s period:
    (1-.09)^ HPS = 0.91^HPS = 0.91^((7/6)+1/(1-(0.25(1-(1-c)^n))*sMH)+1/(1-(0.25(1-(1-c)^n))*sOH))

    if this all makes sense to you then you probably know a couple different things that you can determine from this

    and im off to class again.

    |TGM UI |Fury Warrior Guide | How To Use Landsoul's Spreadsheet| The Numbers Game |
    "I am an elitist; I will never accept mediocrity and I openly show no respect for stupidity"


  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giles Deathstalker View Post
    I am confused by what the hit cap is now. Is it still 8% or is it now 27%?

    And if it is 27% for both arms and fury should we shoot for 27% cap cause that is what I am at right now but I had to lose haste on all my gear (that use to be arp) to hit the 27% haste cap and I also lost a fair bit of crit I had to give up on my 2 trinkets to ge to 27% hit.
    bump

  18. #18
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    8% is the hit soft cap, any hit rating past that point will only affect your auto attacks.

    |TGM UI |Fury Warrior Guide | How To Use Landsoul's Spreadsheet| The Numbers Game |
    "I am an elitist; I will never accept mediocrity and I openly show no respect for stupidity"


  19. #19
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    I specced 3/31/2 last night, and spent significant time at the training dummies myself, and while I am getting roughly the same results as nserafini (4.5-5k dps, notwithstanding the Execute spam), my hit is 8.3%, my crit is 47.56%, and haste is 22.17; I'm getting roughly the same damage output but with significantly different stats. I haven't reforged or re-gemmed yet, so Mastery value is still default of 8. In heroic dungeons, dps output is slightly higher, but I find that my rotation frequently has a lot of downtime, either due to insufficient rage generation or talents on CD. For a toon that was pushing out 7-9k+ in heroics before the patch, this is a significant drop-off. Any concrete ideas to get those big numbers flying again?

    Rotation: EX (when available)>RB>BT>Slam>HS (if swimming in rage and other talents on CD)

  20. #20
    My gut tells me we're no longer ( at least for a while ) going to see the big fury numbers we were used to. It's the fact we're now more rage aware, and need to think if that next HS will really be worth it over waiting to RB or BT.

    Until we get some love, or figure out a way to make crits bigger, the mages and s/priests will have all the fun.

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