Initial Fury Warrior 4.0 Spec & Glyph Thoughts

[Squirrelnut]

I was doing some initial spec/glyph research on my guild forum looking at a 4.0 from a Fury Warrior raiding perspective and thought I would throw some stuff on here as well for anyone interested. Obviously this will change a lot in the coming weeks as 4.0 was just released (and servers aren't up yet as of writing this). Feel free to respond with suggestions/arguments/etc

Spec:

• 4.0 Patch (3/31/2) http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#LhZcrrcszkMfdZb:zmkcVw0mz
  • Arms
    • War Academy (3/3): Great ability, improves some key abilities including HS, Slam, Cleave & Victory Rush
  • Fury
    • Battle Trance (3/3): BT/Slam improvement, nothing more need be said - get it
    • Cruelty (2/2): Basically required
    • Blood Craze (Skipping, looks to be a pvp/leveling ability)
    • Executioner (2/2): Decent ability
    • Booming Voice (2/2): Improves Rage generation
    • Rude Interruption (2/2): Nice on caster fights
    • Piercing Howl (Skipping, novelty ability that is more pvp/leveling related. Might be nice on some fights but from a raiding perspective likely better getting other things unless taking it for a certain fight mechanic)
    • Flurry (3/3): Required, get it
    • Death Wish (1/1): Required
    • Enrage (3/3): Required
    • Die by the Sword (Skipping, PvP and leveling oriented. It might save you in some places but looks pretty worthless for a raiding Fury Warrior)
    • Raging Blow (1/1): Sounds cool and it's something new, get it
    • Rampage (1/1): The basic Fury Warrior buff, required
    • Heroic Fury (1/1): This has always been an under-rated Fury talent, I have always liked this and the 4.0 improvements of breaking snares makes it even better. Get it
    • Furious Attacks (Skipping, PvP related. Everyone and their dog stole Warrior's MS ability so no point in wasting a Fury Warrior's points on getting a meh version of it in a raid setting)
    • Meat Cleaver (2/2): Sounds interesting, I think the tooltip is broken but get it anyway as it will hopefully increase your damage as you beat on trash
    • Intensify Rage (2/2): Standard cooldown timer reduction, required
    • Bloodsurge (3/3): Staple of a Fury Warrior, required
    • Skirmisher (2/2): Kind of a PvP ability but who cares we need points to get to our end Fury ability so might as well grab it. Could consider switching points out with other things, might change this down the road
    • Titan's Grip (1/1): I am getting Shadowmourne in a couple weeks and refuse to not use it. 1 handed weapons would have to output a ton more damage for me to consider switching to Single-Minded Fury (and if they do it would make me sad)
    • Single-Minded Fury (Skipping it, I like my 2 handed weapons but I want to do the most damage I possibly can so I will keep my eye on this and consider switching if 4.0 numbers show it to be OP)
  • Prot
    • Incite (2/3): This is a great ability but I can't see taking a point out of War Academy for it since HS is nice but War Academy improves HS AND Slam AND Cleave all of which will see a lot of use. This may change based on numbers after testing in 4.0 and I will definitely take 3/3 once Cata comes out
• Cata Release expectation @ lvl 85 (8/31/2) http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#LG0cZ...fkZb:zmkcVw0mz
  • Picks up Deep Wounds, Field Dressing and Blood Craze. Could definitely consider dumping the healing related ones (Field Dressing and Blood Craze) however when you first reach 85 and depending on the encounters self healing could be nice. Deep Wounds will always be a must I would think.

Glyphs:

• Prime (basically the only options, all huge)
  • Bloodthirst (not linked right on wowhead yet, 10% damage increase)
    
  • Slam (not linked right on wowhead yet, 5% crit chance increase)
    
  • Raging Blow
• Major
  • Cleaving (Obvious choice)
  • Heroic Throw (The more sunders the faster the better)
  • Death Wish (Helps healers keep you up on AOE intensive fights while popping your cooldowns for max DPS)
• Minor
  • Battle (Nice to have long shouts, beyond that chosen due to lack of better options)
  • Berserker Rage (More rage is a good thing)
  • Bloody Healing (Nothing better to use - not linked right on wowhead yet, 100% increase to healing from Bloodthirst)

Glyphs I chose not to use:

• Major
  • Victory Rush (Trash related and not as good of an option as Cleaving or Heroic Throw. Could consider switching in over Deathwish but I expect it is fairly worthless when looking at raid bosses and its use)
• Minor
  • Intercept (Nice for PvP and trash but again won't do anything on a Boss so little point in a raid)
  • Enduring Victory (Basically trash/leveling related and not much benefit in a raid setting)
  • Furious Sundering (not really sure what this does, might switch in to replace Bloody Healing at some point but sounds more prot related - not linked right on wowhead yet, reduces cost of sunder by 50%)

Stats:

• Hit: 27% (We get 3% passive as fury from Precision so we really only need 24% however wow calculates that for us now so go for 27% based on your stat sheet)
• Expertise: 26 (Softcap remains useful, try to keep it)
• General stat priorities (just my initial thoughts, likely to change) on gear:
  
  • Str > Expertise > Hit > Crit > Haste > Mastery
• General stat priorities on gear after hit/exp caps reached:
  • Str > Crit > Haste > Mastery
• **Note: I reforged virtually every piece of gear I have to reach the Hitcap of 27%, not sure if I really needed to or not.

Gems:

• Red Slots: Bold Cardinal Ruby (20 str)
• Yellow Slots: Inscribed Ametrine (10 str / 10 crit)
• Blue Slots: Etched Dreadstone (10 str / 10 hit)

Rotation: (Not much testing done yet, expect this could easily change)

• Bloodthirst > Raging Blow > Slam (from Bloodsurge proc) > Heroic Strike/Cleave
  
• Input is coming out that @ execute range it takes priority > everything else getting up to 5 stack and then replaces Slam in the above rotation to maintain the stack.

EDIT: Not sure if I should have posted this in the Theorycrafting section or if it is ok here? Any admin feel free to move it if you see fit.

EDIT2: Updated with some additions so that people don't have to look through various replies for the basic info I have been toying with

EDIT3: After hotfix we have had some things improved however Slam still seems to be hosed. For updated rotation priority info see here: http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...fter-hotfix%29

[Tinytankz]

Interesting i will post here agian what i beleive to be the stat wieghts

After hit Softcap and after Expertise cap
STR>Crit>Hit>Mastery>Haste

My concerns are balancing of DPS now that deep wounds and impale are both out of the question. I think the 10% damage reduction removal was long overdo and i like that it was swung twice over with the changes to berserker stance. My thing is fury viability in PVP it seems to be no worse than arms now.

I hope to DPS in cata but tanking just seems like it is where i will be at if i wanna stay with the gruop i am raiding with now.

[Squirrelnut]

Another thing to mention that will likely be greatly tweaked over time is the Fury rotation priorities. It sounds like expectations are:

BT > RB > Slam > HS
However it very well could be
RB > BT > Slam > HS

Time will tell. Thanks for posting the initial thoughts on stat weights as well.

[Tinytankz]

So My question to hopefully be answered is are empty GCD's OK?

My initial thinking would be yes by having empty GCD's we can slowly build up to an enrage point and drop a berserk.


RB>BT>HS> slam proc or empty global >BT>HS Wash rinse repeat

Now if empty globals are bad what do we fill the only empty spot in our rotation. Whirlwind is about our only choice.

[klausi]

The biggest question around is: TG or SMF? Can +15% damage with one handed weapons and slamming with both really outweight the additional stats and way bigger RB hits? With 10s Bloodsurge proccs there should always be an option to squeeze them in.

BT > RB > Slam > HS
However it very well could be
RB > BT > Slam > HS

RB is nothing other than the single target whirlwind on a shorter cooldown that can't procc Bloodsurge. Your ap won't skyrocket even after regemming arp to strength due to the redesign and combining of other buffs (only +5% stats from kings, no more +ap from battle shout, no +stats from motw) so BT can't hit much harder - only receive +10% crit from talents and can procc Bloodsurge and Battle Trance.

So My question to hopefully be answered is are empty GCD's OK?

Looks to me like there no more waiting for special A or special B to refresh any longer:

0,0 BT
1,5 RB
3,0 BT
4,5 Slam or HS/Cleave
repeat

or

0,0 RB
1,5 BT
3,0 Slam or HS/Cleave
4,5 BT
repeat

[Tinytankz]

Your forgetting how much harder TG is gonna hit we used to do 10% less damage thats gone. AND Berserker stance is changed to do 10% more damage as well. AP doesnt need to be as high i no longer need to overcome 10% less damage

[Marcutio]

When do you all think we should we be moving from +str to +crit, from +crit to +hit, etc.? Are the values still relatively the same as 3.3? If so would you mind posting them?

Thanks in advance.

[SeptimX]

first opinion: dang long download (if not downloaded beforehand), then dang long patching (took 30mins just to patch)
dalaran bank: i see lots of headless people, nameless people, the V shift V to view names is buggy
then figuring out the basic interface again... (dis-abled almost all addons beforehand)

then the dreaded gear changes, say ArP Bye bye = all crit now, and talentless again... ugh.... time out....
lookup what tiny has to say before i continue meddling with stuff...
also lookup what landsoul has to say too...

then continue onto WoW 4.0 again...

[Vong]

Maybe Execute spam?
TGM posted that it does insane damage so rotation might need reworking to include.
Can't wait to get in and try it.

Vong

[Brage]

It's to my understanding that hard capping hitrating instead of softcapping, is the way to go for some decent dps now.

[Sapphidia]

Just to comment on the actual build itself:

You skipped over Blood Craze, dismissing it as a pvp/levelling talent. I firmly believe that in the -cataclysm- model of raiding, dpsers will be much more expected to look after themselves. Having huge self heal hots that proc off ANY damage taken is incredibly attractive in a situation of starved healer mana, especially for melee. Also note that Field Dressing 2/2 is going to be the best option to reach 3/3 deep wounds at 85, which further boosts its use.

I will likely suggest takeing 3/3 Blood Craze (it's incredibly powerful and after having it on Beta i'd never want to drop it in ANY warrior build), and dropping Skirmisher (heroic fury should be enough for burst mobility when needed) and going down to 1/2 in Rude Interruption, as the second point only increases the duration of the 5% boost.

I see 8 / 31 / 2 being the cookie cutter dps build at 85, I don't see people taking 3/3 incite over a full 3/3 Deep Wounds, but we'll see.

One other thing: Furious Attacks is a curious one. Whilst auto attacks proccing a 25% mortal strike effect can be seen as a mostly pvp ability, I'm considering having this as my spare point and going 0/2 rude interruptions. Firstly there are bound to be -some- mobs/bosses with healing effects, but mainly... it's a proc. It procs something. When it procs, you cast an ability at the mob to apply the debuff.

Coming from being primarily a prot paladin, what a lot of players dont realise is "stuff that procs things" can have a lot of benefit beyond the actual debuff itself, depending on mechanics. Judgements of the Just (which makes Judgements proc the 20% melee slow) ALSO had the side effect of proccing an extra Seal hit on things as it counted as a melee attack. Likewise, various weapons with procs on, proccing weapon enchants/trinkets, anything like that... having your auto attacks giving extra "events" is very likely to have a small uptime/proc increase on various things.

Of course, it's hard to tell what Furious Attacks could proc: it might be -nothing-, it might be everything, but for 1 point I'm likely to try it out, as extra offensive "casts" on a mob is probably going to affect at least something.

[klausi]

It's to my understanding that hard capping hitrating instead of softcapping, is the way to go for some decent dps now.

Where is the difference between getting more hit beyond the softcap and more haste? Because there are almost no items (3 in all of icc) with hit & haste but lots of items with crit & hit or crit & haste getting both up looks like the way to go for me if you feel rage starved.

[Arlexyn]

SO what, in terms of numbers should we be shooting for in terms of Hit/crit/haste/mastery? Is there a difinitive number or are we simply rolling for as much as possible in the priority order?

[Squirrelnut]

Updated initial thread with links and more info. Much of it needs a lot more testing and will likely be tweaked but I figure it might be helpful for some people taking a first look at things.

[DiabloRock]

What should be priority when re-gemming/reforging fury? I know that ideally, you'd wanna be expertise-capped, you'd want 27% hit, you want a bunch of crit (for Flurry procs), a bunch of haste (more attacks = more damage), and round it out with Mastery (more damage from Enrage/associated talents). But, seeing as how life is less than ideal, I'm going to have to sacrifice stats from some areas to improve others. I only have one level 80, so I don't have boatloads of gold to toss around and play with my gemming/reforging if I screw it up. Any ideas for stat priority? Anyone had the chance to experiment and see what the numbers bear out?

[Squirrelnut]

Personally I went for this:

- First off I gemmed for socket bonuses: red slot = str, yellow slot = str/crit, blue socket = str/hit
- I then reforged virtually every piece that I have to reach the 27% hit cap (replacing haste when possible and crit if I couldn't).
- I also reforged a couple pieces to reach 26 expertise.

Since most Fury Warriors were ArP hardcapped we generally have a bunch of Crit & Haste simply left over on gear. I completely ignored mastery as I don't expect it will have more benefit then other stats until lvl85 when it starts coming on gear and we have more abilities and flexibility to mess with stats.

However, with all that being said I am not sure if being hit capped is really required. The rage gen is really important and the damage is helpful but if I were to switch some of my reforged pieces back to their original crit stats my crit chance would be greatly improved. More 4.0 testing is needed before there are any definitive answers on which has higher priority I think.

My self-buffed boss target dummy DPS seems basically the same or a bit lower then it was pre-patch after all my gem/reforging/glyphing updates. I might dump a bunch of hit in favor of Crit to see how my numbers are affected.

[DiabloRock]

So after the reforging/regemming process, what do your stats generally look like? Obviously you're 27% hit and 26/26 exp, but where do your haste/crit values stand now?

[Squirrelnut]

Right now my stats are:

Hit: 27.16% (743 rating + 3% from precision)
Expertise: 27 (208 rating with no racial bonuses since I am an Orc using maces at the moment till I get my Shadowmourne)
AP: 5347
Crit: 49.09% (2% of that from being Fury)
Haste: 372 (11.34% haste giving me 3.23 attack speed down from my normal 3.6 speed Cryptmakers)
Mastery: Completely ignored it, will probably wait till Cata

The other thing to note is sadly I had to dump my ilvl277 leather gloves in favor of plate and switch back to the Ashend Band of Endless Might since we benefit most from using things meant for us now =(

[nserafini]

You're decked in Heroic gear with crit near 50%. In decent gear I'm near 33% and power is about 500 less.

Until we see gear with more crit and overall hit, we're going to be behind the 8 ball ...