Page 17 of 19 FirstFirst ... 7 15 16 17 18 19 LastLast
Results 321 to 340 of 377

Thread: [Cataclysm] Death Knight Tanking: Satorri's Guide to the Bloody Future

  1. #321
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    5
    [QUOTE=DarklingThrush;493721]
    Quote Originally Posted by Lamneth View Post
    @Nullset
    It is the responsibility of all players in the group/raid to keep track of their threat and manage it. QUOTE]

    As one mentor told me, "If the healer dies, it's the tank's fault; if the tank dies, it's the healer's fault; if dps dies, it's dps's fault." He also liked to say (to dps), "you pull it, you tank it."
    This

    Normally DPS should take care of their threat. If they only dps your main threat target they should never pull off you, except in some fights where the mechanics make it possible (aggro wipes and stuff ...)

    If the healer pulls of you by healing you then you are doing something wrong. Normally this only happens when tanking multiple mobs and by accident ignoring one (not really possible with blood boil and death and decay). That one will then go for the healer because the healer generates aggro on all mobs by healing you. Simple solution, taunt it back and generate some aggro.

    Hint: It can be very hard to see what mobs you have aggro on when tanking multiple mobs. Get the tidy plates/threat plates addons. It will make your life so much easier.

  2. #322
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Currently in Japan, headed back to the States summer '11.
    Posts
    19
    Get the add on called TauntMaster. No explanation needed.

  3. #323
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    21

    Tauntmaster

    I like tauntmaster. It not only shows threat, but allows you to taunt-off by clicking the persons name even if you can not find them in the fray (as long as they are in range and line-of-sight). Left click on the name for Death Grip, right click for Dark Command.

    Regarding threat and whose fault it is when it goes bad: on rare occasions a healer may be responsible for mishandling their aggro - last night our party back-pulled and the healer ran away from me with her mobs instead of to me; I was trying to taunt off and hold the rest of the mobs and had to chase her down - but in general it is up to the healer and tank to "have each others' backs". Pro dps can do their jobs without putting too much strain on tank or heals by: watching their threat meters, using aggro dumps when appropriate, not standing in stuff and expecting to be healed through it, and (with rare exceptions) focusing on the tank's target. I learned a lot about being pro dps after I started tanking and seeing things from a tank's point of view. Now my hunter sets the tank as his focus at the beginning of a run, and has hot-keyed "misdirect to focus" and "assist focus" macros.

  4. #324
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Nullset View Post

    -I haven't tanked before. My main is a Mage that is pretty well geared (lots of heroics). Should I just suck it up and throw my DK into the normal queue and hope for the best? I know the theory, and what's going to save my ass, but I haven't done it in practice and I worry that I will be responsible for massive wipeage.
    No matter how long you've been tanking sooner or later there's going to be a wipe. Just ignore the trolling dps who know nothing about tanking and move on. Best way to learn is to try.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nullset View Post
    -How is multiple target threat calculated? For instance if we're in Tol Vir there are tons of 4 group mobs. If I attack one mob (diseases, say) the others in the group will follow. If no DPS touch these extra adds will they eventually change their target based on what the DPS is doing to the mob I'm tanking?
    Generally the only people who will pull aggro off of these mobs are AoE using dps or the healer. Can always throw out a BB after spreading diseases to be safe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nullset View Post
    -Has the stigma of threat pulling changed since the Classic/BC days? It seems like now (and maybe this is just me reading tank threads too much) if a DPS pulls threat it's the tanks fault for not holding, but I remember back in the day, everyone had threatmeter and you made damn sure that you didn't pull ahead of the tank. Is this still the case in raids, or have tanks been given more threat generating abilities?
    The only time dps will really pull threat off a DK is if they pop cds before you get a Rune Strike off (fail dps does do this a lot) or are on the wrong target. DnD + HS / BB spam normally makes holding AoE aggro pretty easy.

  5. #325
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1
    I must have missed this in the Guide or the subsequent posts afterwards, but how much +hit does a DK tank need? I have looked at several in game DK tanks and a few on the armory and none have any +hit except what is a base stat on a piece of gear. How do we get passed the miss/parry/dodge issues to ensure we are holding aggro? Again if I missed that section could somebody link it? I started tanking a little in WoLK, but since my DK was an alt I didn't have much time to get serious about it. I am trying to get my DK geared enough to fill in if we don't have enough tanks for a our raids.

  6. #326
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    minnesota aka southern canada
    Posts
    2,184
    So dks! we are getting a battle rez. Thoughts?
    I for one like this as I almost never used my raise ally spell. I think they made a good move here. When they limited the number of battle rezes per battle it makes sense to give the skill to more classes so that more raids can use it. If a raid already has a druid or warlock than nada changes, but now others can benefit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler View Post
    I'm on a shark

  7. #327
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    5
    Love the battle rez

    I don't raid but now I can rez the overaggroing/standing in stuff DPS so he/she can die again <evil smile>

  8. #328
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    43
    Quote Originally Posted by Swam View Post
    So dks! we are getting a battle rez. Thoughts?
    I for one like this as I almost never used my raise ally spell. I think they made a good move here. When they limited the number of battle rezes per battle it makes sense to give the skill to more classes so that more raids can use it. If a raid already has a druid or warlock than nada changes, but now others can benefit.
    Yeah, definitely a smart move by Blizz. It's a great idea. Now at least if your Druid goes down, you might be able to get him back before a wipe. ;-)

    =============

    I must say I'm loving the new Death Strike mechanics with stacking Blood Shields, especially in combination with Symbiotic Worm. I managed to get 80K+ shields stacked a few times after I got the trinket last night. Here's one particularly nice sequence:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3...Urikslargda%27

    Will of the Necropolis + Turn of the Worm + 40K Death Strike heals = WIN (well, maybe not win, but at least no damage for a while, lol)
    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    Leave shields to the sissy tanks who need something to hide behind. Death Knights take it full in the face!
    | Unforgiven | Blood DK tank: Urikslargda |

  9. #329
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    US Kentucky
    Posts
    119
    Quote Originally Posted by Swam View Post
    So dks! we are getting a battle rez. Thoughts?
    I for one like this as I almost never used my raise ally spell. I think they made a good move here. When they limited the number of battle rezes per battle it makes sense to give the skill to more classes so that more raids can use it. If a raid already has a druid or warlock than nada changes, but now others can benefit.
    Now I can settle accounts with all those druids that B Rezz'd me!
    (although I think it will be a while b4 i get caught up. )
    "It's always the Healer's fault; unless it's the Tanks fault, just ask the DPS'er in purples doing 5k!"

  10. #330
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    396
    Quote Originally Posted by Jailbate View Post
    I must have missed this in the Guide or the subsequent posts afterwards, but how much +hit does a DK tank need? I have looked at several in game DK tanks and a few on the armory and none have any +hit except what is a base stat on a piece of gear. How do we get passed the miss/parry/dodge issues to ensure we are holding aggro? Again if I missed that section could somebody link it? I started tanking a little in WoLK, but since my DK was an alt I didn't have much time to get serious about it. I am trying to get my DK geared enough to fill in if we don't have enough tanks for a our raids.
    The only time aggro is effected by hit/exp is on the pull and before the first runestrike. After that vengence will allow you to keep aggro if you are doing your correct "rotation". Currently i run with 1.5% hit and 9 exp that comes from gear with no threat issues from any dps.

  11. #331
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    US Kentucky
    Posts
    119
    Quote Originally Posted by Jailbate View Post
    I must have missed this in the Guide or the subsequent posts afterwards, but how much +hit does a DK tank need? I have looked at several in game DK tanks and a few on the armory and none have any +hit except what is a base stat on a piece of gear. How do we get passed the miss/parry/dodge issues to ensure we are holding aggro? Again if I missed that section could somebody link it? I started tanking a little in WoLK, but since my DK was an alt I didn't have much time to get serious about it. I am trying to get my DK geared enough to fill in if we don't have enough tanks for a our raids.
    Hit has become less important in Cata, but if you find extra threat is needed 5% hit will give you 0% miss on lvl 85 target which should be enough for "Trash Clearing".
    "It's always the Healer's fault; unless it's the Tanks fault, just ask the DPS'er in purples doing 5k!"

  12. #332
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    5

    Blood spec

    I've been playing dk for a few years now and seen them evolve into cata Main tanking all raids in my guild but it seems since the launch of cata people are worried about the damage i take in raids etc. We've downed a few bosses with little trouble from my eyes. I've scoured forums going on about mastery vs avoidance and seem to have a good grip on that trying out both but when it comes down to the spec there isnt much to go on except what EJ set out which EVERYONE seems to follow yet i cant see reason to have abilites such as blood worms or lichborne or even the RP increase when i would rather take a AP or damage increase on diseases etc. Due to trying out different specs iv found that im not really missing the DRW either as stacking mastery my avoidance was pretty low so wasnt a reliable cd. Any help people can throw my way?

  13. #333
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    52
    pre 4.0.6 from a healing pov, i HATED healing dk'sd...they seemed to take nonstop dmg, of epic proportion...( currently of my 4 healers only my sham, and pally r 85)
    from a tanking pov, i stopped my dkalmost immediatelyafter trying a few dungeon runs...The same reult, my avoidance was very low, and the hits were many..(my tanks r warr,pally,dk)

    Since 4.0.6 my outlook has completely changed(from a tanking pov)...These are wondewrful tanks, and the adition of the new Masteryseems to be working as intended...
    As a healer in 4.0.6, LEARN TO USE YOUR DS DAMMIT,Lol....Jk
    It seems to be much easier healing dk tanks now..(The ones who utilize the blood shield)Although i have been favoring my Warr for tanking, (due to an overabundance of paladins) I no longer factor out my Dk, and enjoy him as much as ever..THANK YOU Blizz

  14. #334
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    5
    My BS is up basically as much as I can yet when a raid member checked damage i take compared ot other guilds/raids it seems i take more then i should be. Reading forums I've seen that its normal for dk's to take extra damage but apparently according to results a lesser geared dk following the EJ build is taking less damage then i am and surely having an extra "unreliable" cd isnt going to make that much difference. Bloodworms doesnt decrease damage and the lichborne ability just helps heal yourself with DC so I cant see any reason behind this?

  15. #335
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    43
    Quote Originally Posted by Cycorider View Post
    My BS is up basically as much as I can yet when a raid member checked damage i take compared ot other guilds/raids it seems i take more then i should be. Reading forums I've seen that its normal for dk's to take extra damage but apparently according to results a lesser geared dk following the EJ build is taking less damage then i am and surely having an extra "unreliable" cd isnt going to make that much difference. Bloodworms doesnt decrease damage and the lichborne ability just helps heal yourself with DC so I cant see any reason behind this?
    If you feel bad about the damage you're taking, try doing Conclave with a Warrior tank. You'll suddenly feel very good about yourself. lol

    Are you timing your DS for maximum heal/shield? How many DS do you use per minute? Are you using all your cooldowns as often as possible?

    Stop worrying so much about how much damage you're taking and start looking closer at the gap between what you're taking and what you're self-healing. That's what really matters.

    Bloodworms is a major part of your self-healing. You're sacrificing a lot of survival if you go without them. No question about it.

    Lichborne (post-nerf) is still very effective if you plan for when to use it. I like to think of it as a more complicated version of the Paladin's Lay on Hands ability. You can't use it very often, but it can give you a major recovery in a pinch.

    Unless you're having threat problems, why are you worried about your AP? That's just not a big priority for a tank. Control and survival is your job.

    By way of example, on Maloriak 10-man last night my self-heals and Blood Shields were accounting for nearly 16% of all healing done in the raid. My Bloodworms alone accounted for almost a third of that. During the course of one fight, for example, I took 3.8 million damage but self-healed/shielded 1.77 million, of which 540K came from the Bloodworms.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/j...?s=5583&e=6021
    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    Leave shields to the sissy tanks who need something to hide behind. Death Knights take it full in the face!
    | Unforgiven | Blood DK tank: Urikslargda |

  16. #336
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    5
    I know AP isnt a priority stat for tanks i just think its better spent then the bloodworms, increased AP/strength should technically mean more damage = more healing/shielding unless im being completly retarded? so thought that they generally balance out aswell within the raid as it also helps hold aggro and deal damage which in certain fights probably need it. I scoured thru so many forums before deciding my spec and when i finally got one about bloodworms i cant say peoples reaction to them were too great.

    I generally keep my cooldowns on rotation (unless i need specific ones for specific abilities) going back to my first post i dont really seem to miss DRW that much as im attempting the mastery route but respecced into it today and cant say it impressed me.

    With my DS i try to time it for the right times to get maximum healing possible, cant particularly say how many times a minute i use it as i havnt got combat logs to hand but again due to a respec and glyph change so that i have more RP coupled with the glyph gives me an extra 16% which if im not mistaken is an extra 8% healing so im seeing your point about not worrying about the damage i take but seem to not be able to explain that to guild members.

    Im open to critiscm here. As i said i know DK's take alot of damage and looking when i was facing the omnitron fight i only took about 20k more damage then a lesser geared druid tank (not sure if thats a viable point there or not) and needed less healing so maybe im worrying about nothing and just need to get used to the abuse im taking from bosses or is there room here for improvement? Also whats the view on Gargoyle vs swordshattering is it worth dropping 1-2k armour and a few k health for a 4% parry increase?

  17. #337
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3
    It seems that you're under the impression that Death Strike's heal scales with the amount of damage it does:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cycorider View Post
    I know AP isnt a priority stat for tanks i just think its better spent then the bloodworms, increased AP/strength should technically mean more damage = more healing/shielding unless im being completly retarded?
    This is untrue...the tooltip for Death Strike reads that it will heal you for 20% of the damage you have sustained during the preceding 5 seconds (29% when talented) with the minimum being 7% of your maximum health (10.15% when talented).

    The amount healed by Death Strike has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of damage it deals
    .

    Quote Originally Posted by Cycorider View Post
    ...due to a respec and glyph change so that i have more RP coupled with the glyph gives me an extra 16% which if im not mistaken is an extra 8%...
    I'm assuming that you respecced into Runic Power Mastery and coupled that with Glyph of Death Strike in an attempt to increase the healing done by your Death Strike. Again, the amount of damage done by Death Strike has nothing to do with how much it heals, so your efforts were in vain. Sorry . The choices for increasing the effective heals of your Death Strike are to increase your stamina or to increase your mastery (aside from putting points into Improved Death Strike.

    On a side note, there's an addon called Blood Shield Tracker that provides a graphical bar that displays how much heal you can expect to get out of Death Strike, very useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cycorider View Post
    (regarding AP)...it also helps hold aggro and deal damage which in certain fights probably need it.
    You have Vengeance as a passive ability. Vengeance increases your attack power by 5% of the damage you have taken. I and my DK tank friends find that, between the threat multiplier of Blood Presence and the extra threat provided by Vengeance, holding threat is a non-issue as long as DPS waits for a quick second before nuking. If you're having problems with threat, especially single target threat, you might want to reexamine your rotation.

    One last thought on Stoneskin Gargoyle vs Stoneshattering: The extra parry from Stoneshattering does not factor in to parry's diminishing returns. Therefore, you should have as close to exactly 4% more parry than dodge as you can get if you elect to go with Stoneshattering. I firmly believe that you should use Gargoyle if you are prioritizing mastery at all as the extra 2% of stamina will result in Death Strike's base heal going up by 0.58% and the shield going up as well.

    EDIT: My statement about 4% more parry with Stoneshattering is incorrect. Given the dodge and parry ratings with no gear at 85 (mine is 3.94 and 5.00, respectively) your dodge and parry % will not reflect a 4% greater parry rating. Your dodge and parry rating should be the same, regardless of which rune you use on your weapon.

    Also, I need to give credit to the guys over at elitistjerks.com for the information I put out, as I only regurgitated it. They did all of the hard work.
    Last edited by Crashe; 03-16-2011 at 01:30 AM. Reason: Accuracy

  18. #338
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Currently in Japan, headed back to the States summer '11.
    Posts
    19
    2 more add ons that can help you as a tank... especifically a DK.

    Blood Shield Tracker
    http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-a...d-tracker.aspx

    Vengeance Status
    http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-a...ce-status.aspx

    These 2 along with Tauntmaster should help keep you in the know when tanking.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashe View Post
    You have Vengeance as a passive ability. Vengeance increases your attack power by 5% of the damage you have taken. I and my DK tank friends find that, between the threat multiplier of Blood Presence and the extra threat provided by Vengeance, holding threat is a non-issue as long as DPS waits for a quick second before nuking. If you're having problems with threat, especially single target threat, you might want to reexamine your rotation.

    One last thought on Stoneskin Gargoyle vs Stoneshattering: The extra parry from Stoneshattering does not factor in to parry's diminishing returns. Therefore, you should have as close to exactly 4% more parry than dodge as you can get if you elect to go with Stoneshattering. I firmly believe that you should use Gargoyle if you are prioritizing mastery at all as the extra 2% of stamina will result in Death Strike's base heal going up by 0.58% and the shield going up as well.
    I couldn't agree more with the threat statement, sometimes I glance at my threat meter and I'm so far ahead I could stop until the boss dies from half health. At one time I was neglecting my CD's for my threat as well, I have managed to get better at using them and my threat is still through the roof.
    One thing I have started doing that helps me and it's trivial is having recount set on healing done and try to maximise your healing output per sec (HPS) vs. your DS usage, of course this goes along with reading your logs to see your blood shield sizes along with other helpful things. Me and a buddy DK were comparing HPS one night and he was way ahead of me; Him 3k HPS vs. Me at 1800 HPS. Gear roughly the same with me having a better trinket, shoulders and chest. Simply put I was not using DS enough and also not using my Blood Tap after every CD which was really hurting me healing wise. This was an easy fix by just re-prioritizing some key binds but it has made a big difference in my durability, I really couldn't believe I wasn't using it enough and argued at first, but I was wrong and more importantly my healers, and yours will as well love you for it.
    Some numbers concerning Blood Worms on Chimaeron; Total healing done by me was 4,594,422 or 15.39% of total healing done and BW accounted for 1,011,236 or 3.39%. Thats nothing to complain about and I'm sure your raid group if given the chance would not choose to do without that healing.

    I have never looked at the Gargoyle forge that way. I am currently using the Shattering forge and though it's RNG based, and according to you I have been using it wrongly because I have tried to keep my dodge and parry as close as possible but it does make sense because of the DR. I might go back to the Gargoyle and reforge my gear again for bigger BS healz. Funny enough I have been all over the board between avoidance vs. Mastery, I can safely say that at least you can see the numbers and hard results from Mastery.
    At one time I was just under 20 mastery but my hit and exp. were very low, I forget exact numbers but they were low. I reforged some mastery/parry to hit and exp to bring my numbers up a little along with using the exp/hit weapon from deadmines I believe and it made my healz and overall general play seem smoother. Currently I'm at about 5% hit and 18 expertise and almost 18 mastery, though I feel I could lose a little exp. and may forge some for mastery soon.

    @Robbmarrs - The Tauntmaster addon is a poor choice compared to Tidy Plates and Threat Plates IMHO. I'm also not sure about the vengeance status as well, seems a moot point to know about something that is there and working, just my opinion as I have not ever used it and would welcome some feedback.
    Last edited by Michultradk; 03-14-2011 at 12:14 PM. Reason: Clarification
    Quote Originally Posted by Darksend View Post
    Best bet also is find 2-3 healers you know to q with and tell them to forget everyone else and just keep you alive.

  20. #340
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    5
    OK so basically i was being a little retarded, always nice to know Well iv reforged mostly all extra avoidance into mastery and switched back to gargoyle and it seems my heals/shields seem to have significantly increased. The Rp increase wasnt for DS as the glyph maxes outa t 40% anyways but the extra rune strike i could chuck in incase i did have threat issues but as you pointed out the threat increase from vengeance is enuff to keep me going so no problems there just was worried about the initial burst aggro as when you get mages and locks blowing cd's sometimes it gets abit crazy.

    Still cant seem to figure out the deal with DRW is it a viable CD that will actually help you out in a pinch? I tested a spec with it and without it in raids and I cant see it making a difference what views do other people have?

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts