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Thread: Arms Warrior PVE 4.0 and Beyond

  1. #1
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    Arms Warrior PVE 4.0 and Beyond

    Version 4.0.1 13164 (release)
    Oct 6 2010

    I have been looking everywhere for constructive arms warrior discussion. Not PVP but PVE, and yes I am one of the few who have loved arms pve from the beginning and never turn back. Now my guild is still raiding ICC25 2 nights a week and will continue to after 4.0 hits. I am sure many others are in the same boat.

    My questions and notes come from 2 weeks on the PTR trying to prepare for 4.0 Live and this is what I have come up with. Please if you have any thing to say keep it on topic and aimed towards Arms PVE

    First off lets look at mastery for Arms.
    Bonus Swing: This is similar to the Sword Specialization talent that is currently in the game, but Bonus Swing will work on all attacks and with all weapons. You have a chance to proc a free, instant weapon swing that hits for 75% damage.
    EJ has reported this "Bonus Swing" does not generate rage

    Jumping on the PTR the first thing I did was changed all my +20Crit gems to STR.

    The rotation has not change to much,
    Maintain Rend, OP on proc, Slam! timed with Auto Attack, Heroic Strike on 80+ rage.
    Colossus Smash is not available tell level 81 which will replace our Execute on our Sudden Death procs.

    I have soooo much haste.... is this good? Yes and No... my experience resulted in adjusting my stats to the below section in bold.

    Haste is good for keeping that weapon speed short but it also makes. I am positive someone will come out with a suggest haste for optimal dps sooner or later.
    Get to your hit cap - anything over reforge to mastery (keep in mind we are not fury warriors)
    Get to your exp cap(26) - anything over reforge to mastery

    Now we have the priorities covered what about all that haste.
    (Keep in mind I have not weighed in haste to crit on dps gains)
    In full sanctified, mix of 277 off pieces and Shadows Edge I ended up change every piece with haste to the 40% turn over to Mastery.

    Ended up with
    8% hit, 26 exp, 34% crit, 4800 AP, 11% haste, 26% Mastery and a weapons speed of 3.3 with a white swing generating 30 rage.

    My guess is it would be optimal for us to utilize haste for a 3.0 weapon speed. Reforge haste to mastery until you hover just above 3.0 weapon speed. Not including raid buffs

    My dps was 6.3k DPS on the ?? dummy in Exodar. In comparison to Live I'm doing more single target dps on the PTR and more dps then other suggestions like; stack hit, stack haste.. etc..

    Keep in mind since Mastery swings only generate a white swing of 75% damage Crit may be a better option. I will post my results when I get a chance to test it.
    Last edited by o; 10-09-2010 at 08:29 PM. Reason: Added Build number adjsuted

  2. #2
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    Don't ditch that 4pc T10 just yet, the set bonus was changed to a flat 5% damage bonus. Why do you want to time your Slams though? Using Slam will delay your swing timer by its cast time anyway, no matter when you use it. Even if you Slam right after your auto swing, the next swing will still come 0.5 seconds later than normal.

  3. #3
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    I guess it could be up for debate but generally hasn't casting Slam! so it hits a 1/2 sec after auto attack been the norm for optimal dps?

    With the changes; being slam rage increase, a debate could spark in regards to using slam in arms period. The last patch Slam! was hitting for more then MS. But MS damage has been upped and its rage cost reduced and slam rage cost has been upped but I havent paid much attention to the damage.

    I will have to run some more tests.

    Interesting reply none the less. Thank you
    Last edited by o; 10-08-2010 at 08:26 PM. Reason: Gramm"ar"

  4. #4
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    Would there be a better place to have this post? I assumed I was in the right place but feedback is minimal.
    Also if anyone knows of any other places that are having this convo other then EJ plz link

  5. #5
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    This has been one of the only threads out there and I'm sure us single weapon toting lumberjacks can try to appreciate the help. It seem like not a whole lot changes for us other than our stat priorities, but does anyone have thoughts on any possible glyph/talent changes?
    Battlemaster Slaman
    I don't have time to procrastinate so I just put it off for later.

  6. #6
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    Well atm im rocking MS, OP, BS for glyphs. When i look at my recount Slam! is pretty low just above rend. So the 5% crit glyph doesn't make much sense to me. In a 5min fight I can get a BS in every 1.25min.

    http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#LubcfRMRurzcb:RcMRs0k0z Single Target
    http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#LGbcf...bZ0b:RcMRs0k0z AoE

    I personally would l like to see a damage modifer attached to Blood & Thunder and its rage cost reduced to 10

    Incite looks good but I cant seem to really design a rotation with it being used not to dump rage.

  7. #7
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    why 26 expertise? in 3.x, i've had better results spending no stat budget on expertise on my gear. since we're missing one attack in our rotation in 4.0.1, i was thinking that having more low rage OP procs would be even better.

    is 4.0.1 different in that expertise becomes more important for arms?

  8. #8
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    It use to be that slam reset the swing timer, so it was the standard to try and cast it right at the start of the auto attack. This mechanic has been change though, and it only delays the auto attack instead of reseting it. This means you can slam anywhere in your auto attack and it shouldn't affect your dps at all.

    Was there any reason you weren't using your Sudden Death executes? I would think that they would still hit harder than Slam wouldn't they?

  9. #9
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    With arms pve, EJ did a long process about Overpower and expertise and they found that the rage lose and white swing damage lose hurts dps more then not having extra overpower procs.

    And yes you right about the changes to Slam!, old habits die hard and I still to this day time my Slams

    Sudden Death no longer procs free executes. its been changed to Colossus Smash.

  10. #10
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    The change to SD has me worried about my DPS as arms to the point i will probably be going back to fury ( i just swapped to arms PVE when i got serious about arenas as i began to love the way arms works and feels) I just feel like missing an entire Mechanic in the rotation makes it feel less fluid and precise. I do like that i don't have to worry about glancing or missing cause of no dual wielding idk i will be looking at my DPS as arms before i swap just yet.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by o View Post
    With arms pve, EJ did a long process about Overpower and expertise and they found that the rage lose and white swing damage lose hurts dps more then not having extra overpower procs.
    i'd be interested in reading that, since i personally found using my stat budget on armorpen to be more beneficial. once hard-capped, then i might believe expertise > strength, but i'll go to EJ and search for the study.

    i guess with armorpen gone, it comes down to expertise vs strength directly now. hmmm, maybe i need to find some expertise gear

    as for fury, gl with no deep wounds - i'm sticking to arms for now.

  12. #12
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    Hey guys. Just a quick spec question. Right now I have specced my last 5 points into Incite and Blood and Thunder. My issue is that I'm finding myself to be a little Rage starved. Does anyone know if Battle Trance procs enough to be worth the 3 points?

    Right now I'm basing this off Training dummy testing and some Heroics. ICC is Friday night and will be the biggest test, but I thought I'd ask. If anyone is curious, my Armoury link is: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...emar&cn=Ransyn

    Cheers

    Ransyn of Dath'Remar

  13. #13
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    i've been testing on live as well bob, i got the same stats as you, although i didn't watch my haste exclusively, i know my haste is around 11% and i'm currently using a 3.7 speed shadow's edge. about 4k unbuffed AP, 30-31% crit, and 35% mastery, and i've been getting somewhat steady rage. HS is hitting way harder than slam right now, especially with incite spec'd. having no execute though is ridiculous, i literally feel like i picked up sudden death just to go down the tier to get blade storm, and during the last 20% to do more damage. the entire proc sense of it is wasted until level 81.

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  14. #14
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    Q: What are my stat priorities?
    A: Get 8% Hit. After that, Strength > Crit > Mastery = Expertise > Haste.
    So from what i get out of these priorities, Expertise is 2nd last so IMO that suggest the 26 is not a necessity.


    And for those who need, repost from EJ.
    General

    Q: Will Plate Specialization and Mastery be available with the patch?
    A: Yes, you can learn them from your trainer.

    Q: Will Agility Amulets/Rings/Cloaks/Ranged Weapons break Plate Specialization?
    A: No, as those items don't have an armor type. You still want to replace them with Strength items if you can.

    Q: Where the heck did all my Armor Penetration/Block Value/Block Rating/Defense go?
    A: Blizzard converted them all into other stats. Depending on the item Armor Penetration became Haste or Crit while Block Value/Block Rating/Defense became Parry or Dodge.

    Q: HALP! What do I gem for? What stats do I reforge? What about enchants? What-
    A: I've conveniently listed stat priorities for each spec in the sections below. They apply equally to gems, enchants, and reforging. Use them.

    Arms

    Q: What is the best Arms spec?
    A: Some variation of 31/4/1. You have a lot of leeway on Major and Minor glyphs.

    Q: What about Blood and Thunder?
    A: If you want more AoE damage go for it, take the points out of Battle Trance to get it.

    Q: Why did you skip Sudden Death?
    A: It doesn't proc Execute anymore, only Colossus Smash. Reducing the rage cost of Execute for the last 20% of a boss is nifty, but not mandatory.

    Q: What rotation should I be using?
    A: Maintain Rend, prioritize Mortal Strike > Overpower. Heroic Strike as rage allows, and only Slam if you have an extreme excess of rage.

    Q: What about when Execute becomes available?
    A: Keep using Mortal Strike to take advantage of the Lambs to the Slaughter talent, but otherwise spam Execute. If you still have excess rage, burn it on Heroic Strike.

    Q: When do I use Bladestorm?
    A: When you need to AoE. It's not worth using for single targets.

    Q: When do I use Deadly Calm?
    A: When you're rage starved, when you need to burst, or when your procs align.

    Q: What good is Shattering Throw?
    A: It can increase raid DPS during Bloodlust if there are a number of other physical DPS present. However, it's a personal DPS loss.

    Q: What are my stat priorities?
    A: Get 8% Hit. After that, Strength > Crit > Mastery = Expertise > Haste.

    Q: What should I reforge my Haste into?
    A: Hit if you're below the cap, Crit if you're not approaching the soft cap (65% on auto attacks), otherwise Expertise or Mastery.

    Q: What should I use to enchant my weapon?
    A: Berserking.

    Q: My raid leader wants me to use Sunder Armor, I don't want to lose DPS.
    A: Do it. It's a DPS gain for the raid, and for you as well if no one else is willing/able. Screw your rotation and the DPS race; stack it immediately to full.
    Last edited by o; 10-20-2010 at 12:46 AM.

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