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Thread: Starting 5 mans, gear/talents and whether or not to blow emblems/wait for patch?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    14

    Starting 5 mans, gear/talents and whether or not to blow emblems/wait for patch?

    Hi folks, thank you for this fantastic site. I got down on the game after a while of really bad experiences with pugs and only tanked non-heroics for my RL friends for a while. Our guild is about as casual as you can be and still be playing the game. I'm the only tank.

    I've started playing again in the last two weeks and have been using the dungeon finder a bit. I don't see myself doing more than randoms and the occasional instance with my RL friends. I would LOVE to get into raiding but time is an issue. I'm a long time EQ raider and loved it for years (go bards!) but finally lost enough friends that after ten years it was time to move on from EQ. That freed up some time for WoW though. =)

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...r=Hyjal&n=Byll

    What I'm looking for is your advice on both gear and talents as well as whether or not I should go ahead and spend more of the Triumph and Frost emblems I've been getting and if so, what order? In light of the upcoming changes, is there any agreed upon decision on that or is it anyone's guess?

    I'm at 64 Frost and 128 Triumph. I'll likely pick up my two frosts a day and a couple instances of triumphs at least a day.

    If I do spend them, do I simply upgrade the weakest pieces first with the STA priority while keeping my basics solid (Def, Hit, Exp)? I had a huge jump in threat creation over the last couple of weeks with just a few upgrades which is good because the hunters, mages and rogues were driving me nuts with aggro wars until the recent upgrades. I had a hunter pulling 6.2k via recount tonight and couldn't pull off me so I think I'm OK for the majority of stuff I'll see in the dungeon finder now. Right?

    Should I sacrifice some expertise and or hit now for more avoidance/health or keep it around where it's at? I've just started to pop in 30 sta gems now that the other stats are where I've read they should be.

    Basically am I on the right track?

    Thank you to anyone that takes the time to read this rambling post. I appreciate your time and knowledge.

    I'm pasting in my stats in case I screw up and log out in Fury gear.

    Blacksmith/Engineer (maxed)
    Health: 31462 (no buffs)
    Strength: 1000
    Agility: 131
    Stamina: 2284
    Intellect: 32
    Spirit: 61
    Armor: 23491
    Defense: 570
    Dodge: 23.46%
    Parry: 17.56%
    Block: 16.8%

    Resilience: 0
    Damage: 570 - 733
    Speed: 1.70
    Power: 2872
    Hit Rating: 227
    Crit Chance: 10.29%
    Expertise: 26
    Last edited by Byll; 10-08-2010 at 12:29 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    138
    Well, to he totally honest, this late in the game, with cata just around the corner, it's really hard to say. If you plan on even attempting any 10 man ICC stuff, then at the very least get your 4piece T9 (232) set. Get any and all up grades after that, from the triumph vendor. I really dont think it would be worth your time, based on your time situation, to worry about spending frost items on 264 gear. That's just my opinion though. Your going to start leveling again soon, so I would not worry about getting BIS gear, but again, just my opinion.

    I would personally just get your gear to a comfortable epic level of gear, to make the leveling process just that much easier in cata. Another thing to consider is that, correct me if I am wrong someone please, patch 4.0.1 is next week, and all your emblems will be converted to justice points, so get what gear you can now, because I am not sure if it will be easier or harder after the patch to get emblem (justice point) gear.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    102
    I was in your situation just when WotLK was out, and have made it up to ICC in a steady but slow progression. Mostly by grinding 5-mans, weekly raids, VoA and the occasional pug raid. Now with expansion round the corner I dont know what's the best plan, and the patch 4.0.1 changes I don't know anything about. Gotta look into that.

    I guess what it comes down to is how you want to spend the last 8 weeks of WotLK? And how you want to be geared when Cata comes out. I'm guessing you want to keep tanking dungeons while leveling to 85, so getting a few good pieces (ilevel 264 stuff) would probably help you with that.

    The stuff I would get for frost emblems is
    1.cloak it's the best outside ICC so you wont replace it
    2.shoulders as they look cool
    3.trinket as they are hard to find for us non-regular-raiders

    Stuff from triumph emblems is the T9 set, at least 2 pieces for the set bonus.

    Then run TOC5 and the ICC 5-mans and farm them for weapon, shield, trinket, boots, ring, neck and probably some other drops. The ICC dungeons are fun and challenging as well, especially HOR for a tank.

    Some quick comments on your talents and glyphs:

    You got some points in rage saving talents, and a glyph. Rage shouldn't be an issue really, so I would lose those. Maybe lose the 2p in Cruelty, depending on if you want something else in the protection tree. Imp Spell reflection mayby?
    I find Glyph of Shockwave very very very useful when running 5-mans. And I use the Devestate glyph instead of Sunder, as it helps out on boss fights too. Which the Sunder one doesn't. Glyph of Cleaving is good aoe threat, and 5-mans is mostly about aoe these days.

    Here's my talent build for reference:

    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-ta...alhalla+Legion


    Good luck tanking!
    *$

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by Grannos View Post
    Well, to he totally honest, this late in the game, with cata just around the corner, it's really hard to say. If you plan on even attempting any 10 man ICC stuff, then at the very least get your 4piece T9 (232) set. Get any and all up grades after that, from the triumph vendor. I really dont think it would be worth your time, based on your time situation, to worry about spending frost items on 264 gear. That's just my opinion though. Your going to start leveling again soon, so I would not worry about getting BIS gear, but again, just my opinion.

    I would personally just get your gear to a comfortable epic level of gear, to make the leveling process just that much easier in cata. Another thing to consider is that, correct me if I am wrong someone please, patch 4.0.1 is next week, and all your emblems will be converted to justice points, so get what gear you can now, because I am not sure if it will be easier or harder after the patch to get emblem (justice point) gear.
    Yeah, this was one of my concerns. I was hoping there might be some news about which way that is going to go that I was unable to find. Thank you for your advice!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    21
    Do not spend any badges before the patch. Your Triumph and frost badges will convert to Justice points equally. 128 Triumph badges + 64 Frost * 11.58 = 2,223 Justice points. These points can be used to purchase Frost badge gear. The T10 Headpiece is going for 1100 Justice points (95 Triumph or Frost badges). Buying T9 now would be huge waste of your Triumph badges.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    I was in your situation just when WotLK was out, and have made it up to ICC in a steady but slow progression. Mostly by grinding 5-mans, weekly raids, VoA and the occasional pug raid. Now with expansion round the corner I dont know what's the best plan, and the patch 4.0.1 changes I don't know anything about. Gotta look into that.

    I guess what it comes down to is how you want to spend the last 8 weeks of WotLK? And how you want to be geared when Cata comes out. I'm guessing you want to keep tanking dungeons while leveling to 85, so getting a few good pieces (ilevel 264 stuff) would probably help you with that.

    The stuff I would get for frost emblems is
    1.cloak it's the best outside ICC so you wont replace it
    2.shoulders as they look cool
    3.trinket as they are hard to find for us non-regular-raiders

    Stuff from triumph emblems is the T9 set, at least 2 pieces for the set bonus.

    Then run TOC5 and the ICC 5-mans and farm them for weapon, shield, trinket, boots, ring, neck and probably some other drops. The ICC dungeons are fun and challenging as well, especially HOR for a tank.

    Some quick comments on your talents and glyphs:

    You got some points in rage saving talents, and a glyph. Rage shouldn't be an issue really, so I would lose those. Maybe lose the 2p in Cruelty, depending on if you want something else in the protection tree. Imp Spell reflection mayby?
    I find Glyph of Shockwave very very very useful when running 5-mans. And I use the Devestate glyph instead of Sunder, as it helps out on boss fights too. Which the Sunder one doesn't. Glyph of Cleaving is good aoe threat, and 5-mans is mostly about aoe these days.

    Here's my talent build for reference:

    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-ta...alhalla+Legion


    Good luck tanking!
    *$
    I was worried that I made a mistake buying the triumph shoulders.

    Thanks for the glyph advice too! I will play with those next week and see how it goes.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by robbymo View Post
    Do not spend any badges before the patch. Your Triumph and frost badges will convert to Justice points equally. 128 Triumph badges + 64 Frost * 11.58 = 2,223 Justice points. These points can be used to purchase Frost badge gear. The T10 Headpiece is going for 1100 Justice points (95 Triumph or Frost badges). Buying T9 now would be huge waste of your Triumph badges.
    Thanks a ton! This is what I was looking for too. Now I have a plan to just keep stock piling all weekend. Thanks!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    *snip*
    Some quick comments on your talents and glyphs:

    You got some points in rage saving talents, and a glyph. Rage shouldn't be an issue really, so I would lose those. Maybe lose the 2p in Cruelty, depending on if you want something else in the protection tree. Imp Spell reflection mayby?
    I find Glyph of Shockwave very very very useful when running 5-mans. And I use the Devestate glyph instead of Sunder, as it helps out on boss fights too. Which the Sunder one doesn't. Glyph of Cleaving is good aoe threat, and 5-mans is mostly about aoe these days.
    *snip*
    So if I lose focused Rage (that's the rage saving talent you're talking about right?) and buy Imp Spell Reflection I have an extra point to play with. One point of Incite or get the last 1 for 3/3 Imp Heroic Strike? I know Imp Heroic Strike is also rage savings but I need it for the 10 point rec in Arms or should I be switching those to Imp Rend?

    I don't see much else in prot other than Incite after getting Imp Spell Reflection. I'm game to try anything, just not sure what to do with the extra points. I thought Cruelty was actually pretty solid though so I'm obviously still a bit lost on talents.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    102
    Yes Focused Rage was the one. Where you put it is up to your playstyle I guess, I put mine in Imp Charge for some extra rage at start. I never Rend so I wouldn't go there.

    Cruelty and Incite is good for 5-mans, extra threat and dps. Another option I like is Imp Disciplines for shorter cd on shield wall.

    Quote Originally Posted by robbymo View Post
    Do not spend any badges before the patch. Your Triumph and frost badges will convert to Justice points equally. 128 Triumph badges + 64 Frost * 11.58 = 2,223 Justice points. These points can be used to purchase Frost badge gear. The T10 Headpiece is going for 1100 Justice points (95 Triumph or Frost badges). Buying T9 now would be huge waste of your Triumph badges.

    omg I just spent a lot of badges on my alt. Doh!
    Still, thx for info.

    *$

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    Yes Focused Rage was the one. Where you put it is up to your playstyle I guess, I put mine in Imp Charge for some extra rage at start. I never Rend so I wouldn't go there.

    Cruelty and Incite is good for 5-mans, extra threat and dps. Another option I like is Imp Disciplines for shorter cd on shield wall.
    *$
    Thanks! I'll try incite and imp spell reflection and see how that goes. =)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    14
    OK guys, I've mostly outfitted myself in better gear and played around with Talents and Glyphs a bit. My survivability is fine now but my threat is no longer up to snuff. I may be getting unlucky with the DPS people I'm grouping with but I'm just not keeping up with them and having to blow everything I can to hold onto a pack of mobs these days.

    Here's my armory again, for some reason the new shield isn't showing up but I picked up the Barrier of the Earth Princess for a shield upgrade. http://www.wowhead.com/item=53496 I put on a 30 STA gem and an 18 STA enchant for now.

    Armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...r=Hyjal&n=Byll

    Blacksmith/Engineer (maxed)
    Health: 31462 (no buffs) > 43737
    Strength: 1000 > 1329
    Agility: 131 > 139
    Stamina: 2284 > 3738
    Intellect: 32 > 40
    Spirit: 61 > 69
    Armor: 23491 > 26187
    Defense: 570
    Dodge: 23.46% > 23.64%
    Parry: 17.56% > 17.36%
    Block: 16.8% > 30.00%
    Resilience: 0
    Damage: 570 - 733 > 520-667
    Speed: 1.70 > 1.70
    Power: 2872 > 2878
    Hit Rating: 227 > 9.01% Chance (277 rating)
    Crit Chance: 10.29% > 2.23%
    Expertise: 26 > 31
    Mastery: 8.00

    So can anyone give me some solid advice beyond keep running instances for a better weapon? Here's my general rotation:
    Charge> Shield Slam>Change Target>ThunderClap>Revenge if up>Change Target>Cleave if 70+ Rage>Shockwave>Change Target> Devastate>Shield Slam>Cleave if 70+ etc. Revenge when it's up, Free Shield Slam when it's up. Devastate when nothing else is available. Taunt when needed. If for some reason, our healer isn't so good I toss in Demoralizing Shout and keep it up but that's very rare these days.

    I tried Rending with Blood and Thunder but there was never enough time to lock the pack down before someone would pull aggro that way so I stopped. I have trouble with the 6k+ DPS people with the above Rotation and priority. I full understand that my weapon is lagging behind by quite a lot but I've just not been able to get an upgrade for that slot so far. Will that help enough that I'm back into not fighting most groups for aggro or will it just be a relatively slight upgrade? I'm not doing any raiding, it's all 5 mans so unless there's something I'm missing; I'm just waiting for luck in the instances. Would the Broken Hilt one hander be worth the investment? Gold is not much of a problem. I'm well over 30k across multiple characters.

    Anyway, any advice will be much appreciated again. =) Thanks guys.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,132
    5.000 gold (on my realm) for less then three weeks is meh. Best weapon around by far is Wrathful Gladiator's Cleaver but winning ~ 15 random bgs might take some time, depending on your realmpool.

    I varied my rotations a lot, eg
    Charge > Thunderclap (to get everyone in position) > Shockwave > Rend > Shieldslam > Berserker Rage (off CD and Shockwave stun should wear of soon) > Thunderclap > Shieldblock > Revenge > Shieldslam

    but in the end i just end up with

    Mark the hardest hitting one with a skull > Charge (HT if ready) > Shockwave > Shieldslam/Cleave/Revenge spam between keeping Thunderclap and Shockwave on cooldown. If they pull something of me i don't care/occasionally taunt back, it dies in a second anyway and it doesn't matter if those regular mobs are hitting a 32k HP Moonkin or a 37k Fury Warrior for a little while.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    67
    weapons, the wrathful axe, the PoS rimefang's claw, the HoR Falric's wrist chopper...
    Shield, do that elemental invasion, defend your city, que up that dungeon finder and hope for that 251 shield to drop on you...
    Trinket, Corroded Skeleton key, tank, and pvp uses, even dps use if you don't have other trinkets...
    and most likely, always gem for Stamina, except for 2 red gems to activate Meta, you go the expertise/stam gem (purple color)

    tanking rotation, find a style that you're comfortable with. the usual charge/shieldwall/shield slam always works, then thunderclap and shockwave... just make sure you have enough incoming rage before doing cleaves, tab targeting, devastates... basic find your rotation and keybinding and good luck to you tanking.

    gold not an issue, get your craftables made...

    just tell your group that you're new, and that to give you a few seconds headstart, or till you thunderclap before they dps the shit out of your First target (they should focus fire)...
    Last edited by SeptimX; 11-25-2010 at 08:20 PM.

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