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Thread: 4.0.1 Protection Warrior Builds.

  1. #61
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    Bodafasa,

    Perhaps this might be closer to a multipurpose build? We do have dual spec, but I feel I like to keep my second spec for DPS purposes.

    Glaive's Prot Utility Build - Lvl 80 Setup

    Possibly glyphs such as furious sundering might be not optimal, but I wont know until I test it live.

    It will vary somewhat at 85.

    Ideally once I get there the build should look something like:

    Glaive's Prot Utility Build - Lvl 85 Setup

    The important thing here is the added survivability through improving healing effects.

    While the health pool has increased and DEF in my case is quite a bit above cap, it still felt squishy on previous settings, so I went this way.

    Maybe its because I run too much with randoms and people forget they cant go hell's bells on a target until Ive given it a wack or two to get its undivided attention.

    They all seem to be in such a hurry to get the Justice Points and leave the instance to reque.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Glaive View Post
    Bodafasa,

    Perhaps this might be closer to a multipurpose build? We do have dual spec, but I feel I like to keep my second spec for DPS purposes.

    Glaive's Prot Utility Build - Lvl 80 Setup

    Possibly glyphs such as furious sundering might be not optimal, but I wont know until I test it live.
    If you want a hybrid tank build, do 2/3/31 instead. Points can be moved between Incite and Shield Spec as wished. Impending Victory is not going to heal much compared to Blood Craze + Field Dressing. Alternatively, you could put some points in Blitz for even better Heroic tanking openings at the cost of some survivability from Blood Craze or Field Dressing.

    Also Furious Sundering does not lower the rage cost of Devastate...so no point in using that glyph. Tell your DPS to give you 5 seconds in Heroics...that's usually enough to charge in and then TC+SW.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathwish238 View Post
    If you want a hybrid tank build, do 2/3/31 instead. Points can be moved between Incite and Shield Spec as wished. Impending Victory is not going to heal much compared to Blood Craze + Field Dressing. Alternatively, you could put some points in Blitz for even better Heroic tanking openings at the cost of some survivability from Blood Craze or Field Dressing.

    Also Furious Sundering does not lower the rage cost of Devastate...so no point in using that glyph. Tell your DPS to give you 5 seconds in Heroics...that's usually enough to charge in and then TC+SW.
    Except, you can't move points between incite and shield spec because you need to have 5 pts in the first tier to proceed.

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  4. #64
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    After some testing last night, I revised my Utility spec build for Prot Warriors.

    The test character has an average item level according to the game tooltip of 257. Which is likely to be thecase of the average of most tanks out there.

    I felt no aggro loss in instances, especially after I let an eager beaver mage eat the full force of the attacks of a pack of mobs while I sat watching him get trunced by the mobs.

    It does pay off to warn at the start of the instance that "You spank it, You tank it!"

    But thats besides the point.

    Anyways, the current spec Im testing for Lvl 80 is looking like this:

    Glaive's Prot Utility Build - Lvl 80

    And may evolve into this when I reach level cap:

    Glaive's Prot Utility Build - Lvl 85

    It is useful I think to have some points in Gag Order, if nothing else because it allows for silencing pesky casters in trash/add packs, which is allways nice and provides much needed peace of mind when trash/add tanking.

    It also makes a nice added bonus for HT, since it will apply a silence effect on those ranged casters briging them to you that much closer, and making your life easier when tanking packs.

    The fact that I removed Impending Victory from the spec is based at the moment on some tenous testing which will need to be more deeply proven.

    I'll try and record Omen Threat readings, and maybe attemtp to parse for the specific use of this ability to get a proper result from live mobs, and not test dummies.

    Ive noticed that the dummies are giving me higher dps and threat levels than the instance mobs in some situations, so it may well be they are not really good for testing purposes.

    Blood and Thunder is mostly a filler talent, it is rather useless unless you want to stance dance to Arms, apply Rend, dance back to Prot and then TC.

    Rend, as far as Ive read - have yet to test this - seems to also provide no benefit in terms of TPS and the DPS is so low that it provides almost no benefit.

    Also, stance dancing clutters up the rotation or sequence, and worse it can confuse people tanking, thus it is a liability not a benefit no matter what.

    Vigilance is another questionable talent. It might be handy to get some aggro away from your top dps or your healers, but if they are outaggroing you, then they are not paying attention to what they are doing, at least in my book.

    However, again it is a filler talent that Ive had for so long on my spec that it just feels really wierd to not include.

    Im going to go on testing with Omen on live instances and see how this fares vs some of the variations Ive seen so far. Hopefully I will find the right balance.

    I modified one Glyph, the Furious Sundering one, based on some posts here in Tankspot to the one I feel may provide me with a more useful bonus to the party and raid. The improved Demo shout via Glyph looks as if it may well be a nice thing to have in your arsenal, although it is limited I think to trash/adds tanking as far as its use goes.

    Thoughts?.
    Last edited by Glaive; 10-19-2010 at 02:52 AM. Reason: Typos

  5. #65
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    I believe rend can be used in defensive stance.

  6. #66
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    I'm currently using http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LMZ0bZ...odbu:0oV0szkzM

    Blood craze seems really underwhelming ticks for only 1k and heals for about 20-30k total in a bossfight.

    Blood and thunder seems more an aoe talent for arms warriors then for prot warriors with rend mostly scaling with weapon damage.

    Incite is pretty decent. Did some calculations between 2/3 and 3/3 incite and got to 7,2%-7,8% damage increase on HS for 1 point depending on crit (can vary a little with hold the line). Rage is fine enough to HS every 3 secs with only 2/3 shield specialization.

    Vigilance doesn't reduce threat anymore but gives an unique 3% damage reduction. Disc priests don't provide 3% reduction anymore and the prot pally buff is gone. Other tanks will love vigilance and it might be nice for the occasional taunt refresh as well.

  7. #67
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    Just noticing a lot of remarks on Vigilance being an iffy talent. One thing i noticed that really made the difference with Vig was the tank swapping in ICC. Say on fester if you are the second tank to pick up, with vig on the first tank, when it comes time for you to pick it up you are ramped up to maximum ap, where as without you are trying to hold threat off fully ramped dps with only 4k ap. Same situation on any of the tank swapping fights in icc. IMO Vig is a mandatory talent.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnx View Post
    Just noticing a lot of remarks on Vigilance being an iffy talent. One thing i noticed that really made the difference with Vig was the tank swapping in ICC. Say on fester if you are the second tank to pick up, with vig on the first tank, when it comes time for you to pick it up you are ramped up to maximum ap, where as without you are trying to hold threat off fully ramped dps with only 4k ap. Same situation on any of the tank swapping fights in icc. IMO Vig is a mandatory talent.
    Yeah, it will be mandatory for raid tanking, I think, after I saw it in ICC this weekend. I was fury because the other warrior tank didn't have his arms spec ready, and neither did the tank DK, so I saw Vigilance work well on Festergut for the other tank. Very nice.

  9. #69
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    Just my 2 cents on the new builds.

    @Glaive - There's no need to stance dance to apply rend, it cn be used in Def Stance... However that still does not mean that applying it and taking Blood and Thunder are worthwhile.

    I did spec with Impending Victory. Combined with Field Dressing I have noticed an average heal when it procs of just above 11k. Unfortunately I haven't been able to test it's usefulness on high end raid bosses where the fight will last longer than 30 sec.

  10. #70
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    vigilance works well on nearly every fight in icc, no reason not to spend 1 point on it

  11. #71
    When fighting a boss in a Heroic, if I Shield Block, then Shield wall, then Regenerate(waiting for each to run its course first)...the fight is usually over in a heroic with the healer having 98% mana. lol. That said, are supplemental heals in Heroics really needed then? I'm gonna say no.



    On the other hand, I'm considering a supplemental healing build for ICC.

    I was fighting Sindragosa last night and she really hurts in the 3rd Phase. My threat was amazing w/ War Academy and Incite and the closest DPS was several hundred thousand threat away. I'ld probably be fine without War Academy. It may be worth it to have as much healing on Sind as possible especially since at least one healer usually has Unchained Magic on them at a time. Raids wipe on Sindy in her 3rd phase, often when she has less than 20% hp. A tank would have at least a minute or two where Impending Victory could be used.

    So in 1 minute, you have 40 GCDs. You can expect Impending Victory to proc every 2 GCDs and it requires 1 GCD to use it. That's about 13 opportunities to use Impending Victory(ignoring all other abilities except for Devastate). When the boss is at 20%, you probably won't need to be using SS to keep aggro anyways and the threat from Dev should do.

    Max Healing - 2/3/31

    Assuming the warrior has 60k hp buffed in ICC, 5% Impending Victory heal and 20% Field Dressing, 60k * .05 * 1.2 = 3.6k per Impending Victory Rush. 3.6k * 13 = 46.8k per minute.

    Blood Craze with Field Dressing will tick for 1.08k hp(60k * .075 * 1.2), assuming it's always up that's 64.8k a minute of healing.

    Together, that's 111.6k extra healing per minute(not accounting for the +6% extra to incoming heals) when a boss has less than 20% hp. That's nearly two lives or about 6 heals(assuming 20k heals) or 1.86k hps.


    Viable raid build? I think I'm gonna try it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    Except, you can't move points between incite and shield spec because you need to have 5 pts in the first tier to proceed.
    That's a good point that I overlooked.


    In that case, 2 Incite and 3 Toughness is pretty much mandatory B&T just isn't worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glaive View Post
    Anyways, the current spec Im testing for Lvl 80 is looking like this:

    Glaive's Prot Utility Build - Lvl 80

    It is useful I think to have some points in Gag Order, if nothing else because it allows for silencing pesky casters in trash/add packs, which is allways nice and provides much needed peace of mind when trash/add tanking.

    It also makes a nice added bonus for HT, since it will apply a silence effect on those ranged casters briging them to you that much closer, and making your life easier when tanking packs.
    The 30 second silencing HT is the best part of Gag Order imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glaive View Post
    Blood and Thunder is mostly a filler talent, it is rather useless unless you want to stance dance to Arms, apply Rend, dance back to Prot and then TC.

    Rend, as far as Ive read - have yet to test this - seems to also provide no benefit in terms of TPS and the DPS is so low that it provides almost no benefit.

    Also, stance dancing clutters up the rotation or sequence, and worse it can confuse people tanking, thus it is a liability not a benefit no matter what.
    If you find B&T is a filler, why wouldn't you just take Incite instead? You also do not have to stance dance for Rend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glaive View Post
    Vigilance is another questionable talent. It might be handy to get some aggro away from your top dps or your healers, but if they are outaggroing you, then they are not paying attention to what they are doing, at least in my book.

    However, again it is a filler talent that Ive had for so long on my spec that it just feels really wierd to not include.

    Im going to go on testing with Omen on live instances and see how this fares vs some of the variations Ive seen so far. Hopefully I will find the right balance.

    I modified one Glyph, the Furious Sundering one, based on some posts here in Tankspot to the one I feel may provide me with a more useful bonus to the party and raid. The improved Demo shout via Glyph looks as if it may well be a nice thing to have in your arsenal, although it is limited I think to trash/adds tanking as far as its use goes.

    Thoughts?.
    Vigilance isn't questionable, it's essential. -3% dmg is worth it alone. Using it on a tank in ICC also means usually having unlimited taunts as well. It also gives you vengeance from your vigil target being hit. In Heroics, use it on a melee, aggro puller or healer.

    You should consider trying out Blitz. I had 1 point in it previously and it was nice to stun more than 1 target with my charges. Something like 4/0/32 could be cool for Heroics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbad View Post
    I'm currently using http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LMZ0bZ...odbu:0oV0szkzM

    Blood craze seems really underwhelming ticks for only 1k and heals for about 20-30k total in a bossfight.

    Blood and thunder seems more an aoe talent for arms warriors then for prot warriors with rend mostly scaling with weapon damage.

    Incite is pretty decent. Did some calculations between 2/3 and 3/3 incite and got to 7,2%-7,8% damage increase on HS for 1 point depending on crit (can vary a little with hold the line). Rage is fine enough to HS every 3 secs with only 2/3 shield specialization.

    Vigilance doesn't reduce threat anymore but gives an unique 3% damage reduction. Disc priests don't provide 3% reduction anymore and the prot pally buff is gone. Other tanks will love vigilance and it might be nice for the occasional taunt refresh as well.
    Is that 20-30k in a heroic or raid boss? I'm going to assume heroic.

    Your build is interesting, did you find 2 points in Cruelty to give your more tps over 2 points in War Academy?

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathwish238 View Post
    Is that 20-30k in a heroic or raid boss? I'm going to assume heroic.

    Your build is interesting, did you find 2 points in Cruelty to give your more tps over 2 points in War Academy?
    Last ICC25 run it healed for 16k total on marrowgar hc, 25k on saurfang hc, 11k on fester hc. As i said very underwhelming but it might be worth more during cata and we'll have the talentpoints spare for it then.

    Didn't really give much taught to cruelty and war academy. Shieldslam hits hardest by far single target so 10% shieldslam crit> 10% HS damage. Since we have low crit as it is 2% unbuffed 9% raidbuffed that extra 10% on shieldslam is nice. Only thing war academy got going for itself is that it also buffs cleave.

  13. #73
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    Personally, I can't really see a reason to not take Vigilance. I know the old version at the start of WotLK I never even bothered (and didn't really until late ToC level content) due to threat being a fairly trivial issue. Now though, it's a really handy utility because the benefit is twofold:

    1) Helping to generate maximum threat faster

    2) Giving you the ability to reach whatever your theoretical damage output in a fight that much faster

    Granted, I ended up needing to take a break from the game after 5 years of playing around February so I don't know all of the changes (believe Revenge was finally buffed shortly after I left), but the damage output of tanks is much, much higher. Yes, it is 4.0~ but I think with Blizzard implementing Vengeance they've made a fairly elegant solution to scaling and I'm actually impressed. With only Devastate scaling off of weapon damage (I believe) now it'll just get even sweeter as fights progress.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pruke View Post
    Boda, the link in your OP no longer links to a spec. Since the release is more then likely tomorrow it maybe a good thing to get fixed. Perhaps it will prevent a bunch of posts asking how to spec.
    Yeah Ive been busy in game playing with options and trying to fix up my UI. I have settled on 2 specs since I run duel prot. So here you go complete with glyphs.

    Single Target/Raid Boss: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#LMZhZ...ozbu:oV0Vq0kzM

    Trash/PvP: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#L0bZ0...odbu:oV0qkzkzM
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercarcher View Post
    He said that it is "wasting a gcd" however with 14000 AP it will be significantly more dmg than devastate. With nothing better to put points in my points will be here and it will be used when ss is on CD, possibly before revenge pending testing.

    By nothing better lets look whats open in my spec

    Blood and Thunder - Good for AoE, but excluding trash the only time I'm tanking more than 1 thing is Deathwhisperer, Dream Walker, and Raging spirits. I don't think it will be worth the points just for AoE rend on those fights.

    Shield Specialization - Testing on the PTR has shown no lack of rage for tanks.

    Thunderstruck - See Blood and Thunder

    I'm probably going to take 1 point out of Gag order to put into War Academe, but as someone only focusing on getting Light of Dawn I believe my talents here are justified.
    Yeah cause a situational ability that can only be used a certain point in a fight becomes godly when combined with an even more situational buff stacked to full. Victory rush at 14000AP that can't proc Shield Slam, or Devastate at 14000AP that can proc Shield Slam(100%AP) at 14000 AP.

  16. #76
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    I have been reading through and looking at all the more multi-purpose specs and I think this, cause be very beneficial in all fields of tanking.
    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#pGZ0bZ...odbu:0oVkcqk0z

    ~Be gentle ;p

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodasafa View Post
    Yeah Ive been busy in game playing with options and trying to fix up my UI. I have settled on 2 specs since I run duel prot. So here you go complete with glyphs.

    Single Target/Raid Boss: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#LMZhZ...ozbu:oV0Vq0kzM

    Trash/PvP: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#L0bZ0...odbu:oV0qkzkzM
    I really like your Trash/PvP build - that looks like fun.
    My Raid build is almost identical to yours but I have two points in Thunderstruck vs. Hold the Line. Are you using that for more mitigation?

    Also, with that build my current DPS is abysmally low... What are peeps using for their current rotation?

  18. #78
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    "Also, with that build my current DPS is abysmally low... What are peeps using for their current rotation?" Are you putting vigi on ot?

    And lol glaive, reading the spell description helps perhaps

  19. #79
    My calculations for Impending Victory were off and it's heals for even less than I predicted...and I find myself rarely using it. It was interesting experimenting it...but I find it to be very underwhelming.

    Safeguard is also interesting and while fun to use...I've found it to be rather superfluous when I've had chances to use it.



    Since Rend's damage was apparently buffed in the hotfix earlier and I respecced B&T out right before that, I'm going to try it again. I've seen some interesting Recounts showing Rend making up a large part of a tank's damage. I'm also going to see how I like not having Conc Blow and Vigil. Conc Blow while nice is something I don't find myself using quite that much. It's usually not necessary. The only place I will miss it is in HoR against the Mercs. Vigil is nice too for keeping Vengeance up and lots of taunts, so if I miss anything it's probably going to be this. This build has Gag Order as well, which is nice for PvP and Heroics.

    Hybrid Threat/Utility Build - 2/3/31 - FD, Cruelty, 1 BC, All Prot minus Vigil/Conc Blow/Safeguard.



    Quote Originally Posted by Apollux View Post
    I really like your Trash/PvP build - that looks like fun.
    My Raid build is almost identical to yours but I have two points in Thunderstruck vs. Hold the Line. Are you using that for more mitigation?

    Also, with that build my current DPS is abysmally low... What are peeps using for their current rotation?
    It's not a rotation actually, it's a priority system. You should be doing 2-3k pretty easily. In Heroics, I tank with some DPS pieces on.

    Single Target: SS > Rev > SW > Dev. HS when 60+ Rage and keep TC debuff up.
    AoE: TC > SS > Rev > SW > Dev. Cleave when 60+ Rage.

    You should take both Thunderstruck and Hold The Line. Thunderstruck is direct damage bonus to Cleave and TC. Hold The Line is nice for +10% Crit and it's up often.

    You also have too much Dodge. You should more Parry than Dodge which will further help your DPS as it synergizes with Hold The Line.

    3/3 Incite is a must have as well imo. After 3/3 Incite, I would put points into Cruelty and then War Academy if you want more DPS.
    Last edited by Deathwish238; 10-30-2010 at 02:21 PM.

  20. #80
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    I'm trying really hard to understand some of the builds here... but can't.

    Blood and thunder, I can't think of a reasonable argument being made in favor of putting a point in here. The threat gain is so minute you're just as good not using those talent points at all.

    Blood Craze, potentially useful if your healers struggle at being good and you don't like the huge increase in threat from critical strikes on cruelty.

    Field dressing, 6% healing seems pretty marginal to me. I mean maybe if your healers struggle at keeping you alive somehow.

    This is the build I use and have had no issues on all the normal raid encounters including halion, but only like 6 heroic bosses in icc.

    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LhZ0bZ...odbu:0oVzcq0kz
    Last edited by Daderic; 10-31-2010 at 01:33 PM. Reason: My Mac fails at editing glyphs

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