Warrior Tank, Seeking Guidance

[gd_void]

Now that My fury set is Complete as far as Frost badges is Concerned I've decided to take a More active roll in gearing up my offspec tank. However I Feel like I'm rather shooting in the dark, I have a general idea of where I'm going but want to make sure i'm on the right path. First of all here is my Armory:

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...r=Thrall&n=ike

I Have Imp Blood rage over Damage shield because being my offspec i was often asked to tank darnovan on the Lady D weekly. If Damage shield would increase my TPS or Surviabilty i will gladly switch.

Couple question:

1) Anything Wrong with my Spec? Why am I taking Deep wounds? I was told it's best for tps but my crit is so crazy low..

2)Are gems/enchants ok? I know i need to switch the hit gem in my chest to STA for EH.

3) I'm Consitering buying the Boots of Kingly Upheaval, Should i? are they worth it?

4) I have 50 Frost badges should i buy the cloak? wait for the trinket? or maybe another piece of tier?

5)Does the Neverending Winter exist or is it just a myth?


Edit:
I'm asking this because last week I tanked an icc10, and festergut absolutely tore me to pieces, With Shield wall up. is it possible that it was just a healing failure or am i some how too undergeared for a 30% buff icc10?

[Loganisis]

If you're looking for Optimal:

Buy Pillars > Buy Kingly Upheaval. The 1200 bonus armor on Pillars plus the sta > nearly everything else make this the spot you go off-set at the 277 level, so it's really BiS, especially for a boss like Fester where the damage is almost all physical.

In best terms, 2pc bonus head/shoulders normally as you're gearing. Since you have the 264 gloves, either one would work. The general rule for the 2/4pc is:

At 251 Tier Head/Shoulders
At 264 Tier Head/Shoulders. 4pc At 264 for high burst damage fights (Fester is not burst damage unless you run heroic - Do you have a good Holy Pally? Makes the fight cake) or magic damage fights like LDW, Sind, and LK.
At 277 Tier head/Shoulders/Chest/Hands as they are BiS individually (or very, very near and bonuses push them over the top)

Basically you get more bang for your buck with Pillars as your non-set over the set legs than any other gear for any other slot over the set pieces, which makes Pillars/H Leggings of Lost Hope the set breaker (H leggings for magic damage fights).

Back, Chest, Belt are the three pieces you should get first if surviveability is a bigger concern than threat. Many would suggest Cloak > Belt > Chest (Cataclysmic first, then tier unless you have just loads of marks sitting around) because of the cost of the gear. I've always disagreed and suggest Cataclysmic, Vergis, Cloak, but that's my opinion, you'd be hard pressed going wrong in either direction (all 3 have bonus armor which makes them very attractive).

After those three, tier helm or shoulders (to make your 2 pc, assuming you replace the legs with Pillars), CSK, and then the other. And finally tier chest (so you can upgrade it, the 251 is pretty far behind the emblem 264).

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Neverending Winter Exists... honestly. Our Holy Pally even has it.

Rings - Clut of Fort is good, but any stamina ring from ICC25 is better than your ToC ring. THat being said, the Heroic Valkerie ring and Ony ring are best in slot until you get the ICC25 armor ring from VDW if you can get your guild to run ToGC10 Valks and Ony25 because the armor on them > stamina on other rings.

Wrists - DBS10.251 wrists are better than the Morrowgar25.277 wrists for most fights, high magic you'd flip them.

Trinkets - If you have access to ToC/ToGC25, Scarab is great. Unidentified Organ from PP10 is great. Obviously Fang from Sindy25. CSK is purchasable. Mix and match appropriately (e.g. fester is dual armor).

Don't forget to put the +40 crit scope on your rifle for the extra TC crit.

I'd put BD on your wep rather than Accuracy - if you're worried about taunts landing (LDW, DBS, Fester, oozes, PP, VDW Adds, Sind) glyph taunt, then even as low as 160 hit you're good (maybe lower, that just seemed to be the magical number for me).

I run with glyphs of Dev, Taunt, and Shield Wall, though swapping Last Stand in and out with Taunt would work if you're a constant min-maxer.

The only enchant I'd suggest you change right away is your sheild. You have 567 defense, replace the +Def with +Sta on the shield.

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Your glyphs are threat glyphs... are you running with guys pulling 8K+ in 10? Spec looks okay given what you said about Donovan (no druid to keep him rooted?). It just seems a little overkill to be glyphed for threat too unless the DPS is just going hog wild...

In which case I'd recommend grabbing the 1.5 wep speed axe from Gunship25 as a threat stick. The Heroic version actually has more EH than any non-LK drop. Don't let them argue with you on this one ;-)

****

As for surviability, it's really an armor game. In most fights in ICC armor is very, very valuable. Right now with no heroics and limited access in 25, I'm sitting at 34,750 armor, raid buffed to ~37k and during a third inhale on Fester it's over 40k with an indestructable pot. It really, really helps and makes you easier to heal. Of course I have become something of an armor hoe because I'm terrified of relying on healers, so armor makes it easier for even lesser healers to keep me topped off (of course the Holy Pally in our 10m critting for 100k is nice...)

Knowing what your 10's healing setup is like is probably the biggest key. 30k armor (36k with buffs and indestruct pot?) is more than enough for Fester with the 30% buff if the healers are switching quick.

You're chaining Last Stand and SW right? (I actually prefer to start with Last Stand because it has a longer duration, making it a little easier to manage.) It really shouldn't matter if you have big-ass heals coming in, but it will help. The other thing I've done to help with that fight is use SB as I taunt, to help a little as the healers switch over. It's usually up again for the 3rd inhale if you taunt right at 8 stacks.

[gd_void]

Thank you for your Quick, and rather Thorough responce

My holy pally has the neverending winter as well, doesn't even have a tank spec and he has it, but i have never seen it drop while on my warrior, lol.

I'm thinking about switching my Weapon enchant to mongoose, what are your thoughts on this?
I will change my Shield enchant as suggested, after i make the boots to see if i still have enough Def

And yes I've been running into quite a few great dps when i decide to tank icc10, as fury i've earned myself a name as a good rl which generally gets me better quality people.

[Loganisis]

For warriors (Pallies are different, their uptime and agility conversions make mongoose much more attractive)
Mongoose < Accuracy for Threat.
Mongoose < BD for survivability.

Mongoose is pretty good for Pallies, but the lower uptime (something like 30% compared to Pallies 60% according the info posted in Mellvar's thread on tank wep echants) means it's not as valuable to warriors. Blood draining costs Fort Knox, but is the best enchant for progression.



You should still have enough defense without the boots. If not, you can look for enchanting back, but you're at 567 with the lingering vortex boots right (armory is down atm)? That's a little over 9 defense right there so you'd go from 567 to 557 in a worst case scenario (if it rounds down). You've got until 536.


Threat... Rotation is key. But after that I've found Glyph of Taunt (you have) and weapons making hte biggest difference (at least that you can control, tricks and MDs and Salvs are important too) you probably have the rotation down, so really, beg, borrow, and steal the 277 1.5 wep speed axe from 25H Lootship. It's a 25% increase in DPS, will make huge devestates, and is .1 faster than facelifter meaning you'll get a few more HS's.

[gd_void]

Well I havn't tanked a raid since i've made these changes, Ill probley try and throw together an icc10 tonight, Ill see about Blood drinker, I have a Ton of Enchanting mats laying around, Being a fury warrior i keep enchanting mats for at least two berserking's at all times. Single target threat is no problem, 10K+ tps at all times, However(in heroics) i have major issues and it's rather Frustrating going from my Drop DnD and forget it dk to losing agro to just about anyone who is on par or higher geared then me on aoe packs I think i'm going to Glyph cleave and hope that helps but we'll have to see when the servers come back up.

[MellvarTank]

Don't glyph cleave, you don't hit hard enough to really justify it. The key to multiple mobs is changing targets and hitting with high threat abilities. Glyphs for trash threat are dependant on your play style. There is only one real 'necessary' glyph which is Devastate. Other helpful glyphs are blocking, shockwave, and sunder armor.

[Loganisis]

Mark and ask for single target DPS On the flip side, mark an skull, let the DPS go hog wild on that one while you build aggro on the others and they'll die before DPS catches up (after having burned down the first one). lol

[gd_void]

Basicly my trash style is:

#1 Mark a Skull, I always do this. I have it keybound to 'g' so that i can do it quickly
#2 Charge in and Tcap
#3 Round them all up in Front of me and Shockwave
#4 Shield Bash + Shield Slam The Skull
#5 Tab + Cleave/Imp Revenge until dead

This used to work, i dont know if something change or maybe I'm just playing badly now. I seem to remember being able to hold agro off those who refuse to wait three extra seconds to aoe(damn you fury warriors<--feel like i'm kicking myself in the teeth with that one)

[Loganisis]

To be fair, unless it's an ICC5, Fury just sees pulling aggro as free rage in Heroics. LOL --- But a Crit WW right off the pull, yeah... And people wonder why Warriors hate trash....

[gd_void]

Oh I know all about how a fury warrior works, If only i could taunt and survive the extra rage gain! Lol Armory is back up if you wanna take a look at the changes i made, I threw on the pants that i had laying in my bank, think those are better then the t10 2p? or should i switch back?

Dont quite have the cash for Pillars of might just yet, working on that!

[MellvarTank]

Keep your 2pc T10 as it is a big threat gain. Use vigilance wisely, usually always on fury warriors in 5 mans. For T10 2-piece you should have the helm/shoulders, then the offset gauntlets and chest piece, get the pillars of might. T10 legs just aren't worth it.

[gd_void]

Ok, with any luck ill have 95 badges this week, What would your Suggestion as to my next piece of badge gear be mellvar? I was thinking the CSK, 1000HP seems like a huge EH Bonus over just about anything else, and it's Not replaceable till top tier

[MellvarTank]

I can't check your armory currently to see your trinkets, but I know that it isn't 1000stam. It's 216 stam, or 2160 hp total, so I assume you mean 1000 hp.

[gd_void]

Yea i ment hp sorry, I'm using the Glyph of Indomitably(triumph badges) and The Black heart(N-ToC5)

[MellvarTank]

I would get the Cataclysmic chestguard, and ditch the hit rating gem. The trinket (though an upgrade) is not going to be as important as the chest, legs, shoulders and helm.

[Loganisis]

I would get the Cataclysmic chestguard, and ditch the hit rating gem. The trinket (though an upgrade) is not going to be as important as the chest, legs, shoulders and helm.

I agree with cataclysmic as the first upgrade.

Well the legs shouldn't be a compeition, since you can buy the primordials pretty cheaply now

The head/shoulders is more specific to the player. If you ahve threat issues than the 2pc Head / Shoulders is better because of the good chunk of threat. If your threat is okay than CSK for the Stamina increase over TBH and the extra 'on-need' CD offers far more surviveability would be ahead of head/shoulders. At least imo.

[gd_void]

I went ahead and got the CSK, as of this moment my plans are for my next piece to be the t10 helm, and finish grinding the mats for the pillar's of might. my thought behind this move is Armor is great, but having 40K hp is unacceptable.

I choose this move because i ran an icc10(no shield again grr) and got two great upgrades, heroic Lady D chest, and the Blood prince shoulders. After i get the helm i'm going to go ahead and get the Chestguard which will balance out my stats rather nice, so maybe three week's for all of this if everything goes right.

I want to thank you both for your advice on this matter, and I honestly think(after tanking that hm icc10 last night) that it was a healer failure not one of my own, seeing as how i tanked HM Fester with out a death doing the same thing.

[Osyriss]

Dont worry about the shield, i have been running ICC10 since the first week of March (later than some i know), and have only seen it drop 1 time on either heroic or normal, and my Warrior NEEDS it badly (still rocking the 232 from TOTC10). So Good Luck on that one! btw, did i mention the 1 time i saw it drop was on Heroic the first time i was on my Shaman? it went Off Spec as well =*(

[gd_void]

My holy pally got the shield first time he went into icc10... Got the heroic version the second time....

[Fledern]

I think everybody covered the gearing part well so i'm going to touch on Festergut.

On 3 inhales, you need to be chaining cooldowns, ie shield wall, when that's about to run off last stand + enraged regen. All healers will be concentrating on you too so that should go smoothly. The part where festergut becomes tricky is 2 inhales. He hits pretty hard, you cant use cooldowns because you need to reserve them for 3 inhales, healers are mostly busy on you but still have to raidheal a little. Make sure your shieldblock cooldown is up at the start of 2 inhales. Also use an armor pot right there. If your healers are ok, you could keep enraged regen reserved for 2 inhales too.