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Thread: Sindragosa dps

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by uglybbtoo View Post
    11,156,000 hp / 600 = 18593.333 assuming 5 dps = 3718 dps per person to beat enrage
    Damage per second done to Sindragosa. Having problems with target swaps (freeing ice tombs) can be a hassle.

    But don't forget about the tanks, reducing the required dps even further. In phase 1 there's not much healing needed after all with the raid watching for their stacks, having one or even two healer (depends on your setup) doing part time dps can help, too.

  2. #22
    I think execution problems and low dps is linked, as previously mentioned.

    Before the next raid, or right before Sindy, ask everyone to tell the rest of the raid what they plan to do when they get Unchained Magic or too many stacks of Chilled to the Bone. (Be prepared to go first; keep it constructive; etc.)

    As prot warrior, I occasionally get a streak high enough to bother. I refresh shouts and judge whether to put rend up (for our usually-top-damager rogue) to cover my pause period if deep wounds is about to expire. As a hunter, that's a good time to feign death to clear my threat, or judge the need/timing of a misdirect versus the next Icy Grip. I also judge whether to refresh Serpent Sting if that's close to expiring.

    The idea is to do useful things during the period where I need to be careful of my normal attacks, so I don't need to think about them when my debuff falls off, and can do pure damage until the next flight phase.

    (For what it's worth, that same "what is your plan?" approach can also work wonders for coordinating positioning, dealing with one healer being ice-blocked at the same time as another healer has Unchained Magic, and more.)

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenier View Post
    However we tend to run caster heavy so Unchained Magic was pretty brutal for us.
    Actually, the opposite is true. The way the encounter mechanics work, there will always be exactly one DPS caster and one healer with Unchained Magic (three DPS casters and three healers on 25-player mode). So, aside from that one caster, all other DPS casters are guaranteed to not be handicapped by Unchained Magic, while melee/hunter DPS will always suffer from Chilled to the Bone. But if you bring more casters, you suffer no more DPS loss than from just bringing one, whereas the DPS loss for melee/hunters scales with their number.

  4. #24
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    I'm aware of that, however said casters also typically would panic and either stop casting entirely, or kill themselves because they didn't notice it, or became so focused on watching it they died to something else.

    Sindi is a fight were people can't panic. and just because of who was there, the debuff was much harder for us to deal with then it should have been.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenier View Post
    or kill themselves because they didn't notice it
    DBM and I assume other boss mods start yelling at you once you get to around 5 stacks. They're bad if they fail to notice that. :\

    They need to stop panicking, and start learning how to deal with it.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by uglybbtoo
    11,156,000 hp / 600 = 18593.333 assuming 5 dps = 3718 dps per person to beat enrage
    Quote Originally Posted by klausi View Post
    Damage per second done to Sindragosa. Having problems with target swaps (freeing ice tombs) can be a hassle.

    But don't forget about the tanks, reducing the required dps even further. In phase 1 there's not much healing needed after all with the raid watching for their stacks, having one or even two healer (depends on your setup) doing part time dps can help, too.
    Going back to the math... there are other factors that cut down DPS time like the air phases which cut down the DPS-able time on her and the tombs in P3 which take 1 person out and require at least 1 to break.

    The air phases are what, about 35 seconds? (~5 seconds to pick a target, 10 seconds to be frozen, 20 seconds to land)? A progression group is probably going to see 3 or 4 air phases which would be 105 to 140 seconds off the 600.

    So actual DPS time for progression is probably 460 to 495 seconds.

    So you're looking at 11,156,000 / 495 (assuming 3 air phases) or so for 22537, asumming 5 DPS (to account for the 2 tanks contribution and losing DPS to the tombs in P3) you're looking at 4,507 DPS.

    And thats if everyone stays up. I would think to have a realistic chance you'd also need it a little higher since there's going to be movement clearing stacks in P3 as well and most classes will lose a signficant chunk of DPS for a few seconds as well.


    So if you're looking at your WoL reports, I imagine you'd need to look at peoples DPS(e) and the goal would be ~4500 for DPS or ~22,500 effective DPS for the raid as a whole (looking at the entire raid together)
    Last edited by Loganisis; 09-14-2010 at 02:01 PM.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  7. #27
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    Stopping the instant you get unchained magic is bad.

    It just means it jumps around more. Have people stack it to like 6 stacks. Or if it lands on a healer they can stack it higher. On my Holy Pala i can happily stack to 10, knowing that when it drops i can heal myself back up instantly and it keeps it off the DPS.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loganisis View Post
    The air phases are what, about 35 seconds? (~5 seconds to pick a target, 10 seconds to be frozen, 20 seconds to land)? A progression group is probably going to see 3 or 4 air phases which would be 105 to 140 seconds off the 600.

    So actual DPS time for progression is probably 460 to 495 seconds.

    So you're looking at 11,156,000 / 495 (assuming 3 air phases) or so for 22537, asumming 5 DPS (to account for the 2 tanks contribution and losing DPS to the tombs in P3) you're looking at 4,507 DPS.

    And thats if everyone stays up. I would think to have a realistic chance you'd also need it a little higher since there's going to be movement clearing stacks in P3 as well and most classes will lose a signficant chunk of DPS for a few seconds as well.
    I think that's probably a better estimate of min. dps required. According to World of logs the average group DPS for the 14,333 (when I checked last) successful Sindragosa kills (10 man normal) is 30,791. If the two tanks do a combined 3.5k DPS this means that the five DPS are averaging around 5.5k DPS on each successful kill.The average group dps for the 70,000+ wipes is 24,602. Again, taking out the 3.5K combined dps of the tanks, that means the average DPS on wipes was 4,220. This really matches up with what I was seeing in our attempts. With the group pulling 24K I really wasn't sure that we'd be beating the enrage, even if we'd survived that long (particularly seeing as though our dps was on the decline toward the end).

    I need to figure out how to use WoL so I can upload some attempts.

  9. #29
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    There is another post on this somewere around here . Is the basic issue really the DPS for you guys? Consider timing on BL and such as major factors.
    Sindi in my book is a dps race P1 and execution p2. Hence I get anoyed at new groups at sindi that blow of BL in begining of p2. That means ppl will fokus more on dps less on what they are doing hence you will wipe.

    Start with BL at p1 we usualy do it in the begining or at the first landing. Then during p2 we fokus almost fully at ice. Doing this will take abit longer but she is going down with no worries at enrage timer.

  10. #30
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    @Swollenpickles - WoL is easy. Interpretting... thats where I get hung up.

    Basically:

    A) Start of Raid /combatlog
    B) log off after raid
    C) Go to WoL, log in.
    D) Click in the "Client" link next to your guild's name in the top right.
    E) Upload the log file (you may have to locate it the first time, but then it will open to the same directory every time after that)
    F) After it's uploaded say yes to Archive and delete.


    The problems I ran into early with WoL is that I had old logs, and that doesn't work. The log files have to be from within the last 30 days (maybe less?) or if you start hitting 80 or 90 thousands lines.

    If you use WoL and have it archive and delete the log file after each upload there isn't any risk of the former and isn't *too* much risk of the later.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  11. #31
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    We were at that "got her to 20%" merry-go-round point durring our grind to kill her; what we did/do do different is alternate killing the ice blocks in phase three between the range and the melee. In phase three melee take first ice block down while range stays on Sindi, range takes out next ice block (from behind to drop stacks) while melee stays on boss, rinse and repeat. We found this let us keep a constant dps on the boss and still deal with the ice blocks.

    We also found that most of the wipes came from people being too zoned in on boss and not paying attention to the mechanics.

  12. #32
    It's hard to say what we do at this point. It's really a one shot walkthrough because we outgear her so bad, even when people screw up we still down her with 8 or 9 people standing.

    Our 3rd 10 man was stuck on her last week and wiped 18 times in a night before calling it. I talked them through what my 10 man team did on the fight and they 2 shotted her.

    Sometimes it's just about communication in vent. It's really the only thing they did differently was make it so everyone was responsible for calling out their blocks in p2 and calling which position they were moving to (position 1 or position 2) so people would move away if they were too close, etc. and be ready to jump on it and down it once it was up. I also told them to drop smoke in the 2 positions so there was no confusion, but not sure if they did or not (we never do, but it can help).

    With the 30% buff now and 3 healers you can 1 tank p2 as long as your tank has good CD control and your healers and dps are on the ball. I don't get real squishy till 25 stacks or so, and usually she's dead at that point so it doesn't matter. The extra dps and everyone averaging over 8k except the tank and healers drops her quick.

    Cry Havoc! And let slip the Ghosts of War..


  13. #33
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    As it's been said, this fight is all about survival and block placement sub-35%. In normal you can definitely afford to stack your instability decently high (higher for SPs, etc.) because there's no HM aoe effect.

    Just to reiterate, our first kill back in Feb had a recount showing raid dps (dps/tanks total) at ~28300 with no lust with 1:05 until enrage. If you wanna see just how disorganized that kill was, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyW0l2GNLm0. We definitely got rid of the "just be 10 yards from the next block" strat for both 10s/25s because the front/hind feet positioning works so much better. Phase 3 blocks were way too far away from the boss and tanks almost died from healer OOR issues but the key was we didn't double block and melee was enough to break the blocks, allowing the hunter/SP to pretty much focus fire the boss (poor SP being the only caster).

    Like someone said previously in this thread, enrage timer is really long. I would almost recommend doing a sub35% phase where you ONLY work on tomb positioning, stack dropping, and movement. Hit the enrage timer but ensure that you have flawless tomb placement and that people can drop their stacks properly. On the next go around, do it normally and I would be surprised if you didn't get it shortly thereafter.

  14. #34
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    ^^^^^^ THIS

    If can't get raid to survive long enuf to hit the enrage timer concentrating on DPS isn't going to ever solve it.

    Alot above are taking out air time etc from Sindi .. Average DPS is >>> THE AVERAGE <<< there is no need to account for anything else basic maths recount and WWL give average DPS for fight. They must be doing 6K while she is on ground to average 4K.

    Until you can hit enrage timer with 10 people standing it is execution not DPS thats your problem.

    DPS will ease thing because you are basically trying to dumb the fight down to like a heroic where you outgear it so badly it is trivial.

    EDIT: Given the crap above I should also point out that DPS averages stop the moment a toon dies. So thats how you can have DPS averages above that needed but still going to hit enrage timer you are worried about. BASICALLY HALF OR MORE OF YOUR DPS IS DEAD.
    Last edited by uglybbtoo; 09-16-2010 at 07:10 PM.
    ** Remember Warcraft players fail in directions you never thought possible.

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