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Thread: Holy Pally Looking for some advice

  1. #1
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    Holy Pally Looking for some advice

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...r=Thrall&n=oiz

    I've been healing On the pally for A little while now, and I find now that I'm at an crossroads as to what should i do.

    First and Foremost Does anyone have any Suggestions as to what i should change On my gear/Spec/etc I have Pursuit of justice because it's just damn useful and i pvp quite a bit, but if there is something I'm missing I'd be happy to spec out of it.

    Secondly I currently Use Flash of Light to Heal Here is How a general Fight goes for me
    Say I'm fighting Saurfang, For this Argument let's say no Marks go out. Ill Keep Beacon on one tank, and Shield the other, while spaming him with flash of light, If either of the tanks get Down more then 10-12K, Which Is what i consider the amount a FoL and HS Can safely heal, then Ill Throw out a HL. I've been told this is a bad thing to do, Should i Just pick HL and stick with it? or am I doing fine and people are just Remarking on things they don't know all about?

    The Only Problem I've found with the FoL Spam Is Dispelling, I find that it doesn't Leave much Wiggle room to dispel things When i'm Having to hit FoL every sec aswell as keep up my two buffs, Is this normal or am i just not geared enough to pull off this play style?
    US|Thrall|Horde Yea, I Love Plate
    Ike(Fury Warrior) Oit(Dk Tank) Oiz(Holy Pally)

  2. #2
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    My Paladin is slightly lower on the gear scale than you, and I have no problem keeping up with a Holy Light based style, mana wise. If In doubt, I generally tend to Holy Light. Better to spend that extra mana and have your group survive than try to be conservative and have people die. What I've come to realise is that it's important to plea early, and not to be afraid of Plea's healing penalty. As long as you use something to offset it, or pop it in low healing phases it's fine. I come from a Tank background, and from that I know that it's important to use your cooldowns and shake off the mindset that you are 'saving them 'till you need them' which usually leads to hitting the floor with all of your cooldowns available, because you have that moment of doubt when a situation where you need them arises. As far as dispels go, it's something that comes with experience, when you know what to expect from a debuff you can better judge wether to dispel immediately or to focus on healing before dispelling.

    If what you are doing works now, keep doing it. What is important, is that if you encounter a situation where it does not work, is that you keep an open mind and be prepared to adapt and question what you have been doing.

  3. #3
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    FoL is generally too weak to be a main heal. It starts off weak, it has a low spellpower coefficient so it scales poorly, it's generally just too small. Holy Light heals for significantly more, with only a slightly longer cast time. The downside is the mana cost, but that can be alleviated by stacking int and using the lvl 200 Libram of Renewal (which is still OP).

    The cookie-cutter raiding Paladin spec goes into the Prot tree nowadays for Divine Sacrifice/Guardian, which is a damn good raid cooldown in addition to a nice boost to Sacred Shield. Getting Divinity will help a lot too - 5% more healing never hurts. http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sxAzgM0sVu0tgdxGzub:Iwd is what you should try out - the last two points can go a number of places; Benediction, Blessed Hands, Imp Devo Aura, even Imp HoJ if you need valk stuns for H LK.

    I know I'm telling you to change up your playstyle significantly, but to be brutally honest FoL spec is dead for raiding. You just can't put out enough raw healing to keep tanks up.

  4. #4
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    I'm not sure on your personal progression through ICC, but i'm sure that as you reach bosses like Festergut and Sindragosa, you'll start to feel that FoL really doesn't do the job, and move over to heavier usage of Holy Light, and the greater mana management that comes with it.

  5. #5
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    I've cleared up to pp On my Pally, Half of my Concern is Ill start the fight With FoL And end with HL, the other half is Im terrified of Dreamwalker having Done it multiple times as Dps/tank all I hear is it's a whole differant ball game as a healer, Which is interesting but I know FoL Isn't going to cut it on that fight. So If i go ahead and Switch to the suggested spec( /tear PoJ) Do I keep HL For the Tanks then generaly Use FoL and/or HS to keep up the dps? I Find i end up doing quite a bit of dps healing Tho only average around 4K HPS In icc10 which puts me first, but dead last in 25 man where I'm more like 2K hps While I realize Healing isn't about rocking the meters It does feel like i'm not doing my Job correctly when i'm Dead last in healing done
    US|Thrall|Horde Yea, I Love Plate
    Ike(Fury Warrior) Oit(Dk Tank) Oiz(Holy Pally)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by gd_void View Post
    I've cleared up to pp On my Pally, Half of my Concern is Ill start the fight With FoL And end with HL, the other half is Im terrified of Dreamwalker having Done it multiple times as Dps/tank all I hear is it's a whole differant ball game as a healer, Which is interesting but I know FoL Isn't going to cut it on that fight. So If i go ahead and Switch to the suggested spec( /tear PoJ) Do I keep HL For the Tanks then generaly Use FoL and/or HS to keep up the dps? I Find i end up doing quite a bit of dps healing Tho only average around 4K HPS In icc10 which puts me first, but dead last in 25 man where I'm more like 2K hps While I realize Healing isn't about rocking the meters It does feel like i'm not doing my Job correctly when i'm Dead last in healing done
    Generally (particular emphasis on that bit) a Paladin should be focused on Tank healing. Raid healing isn't your responsibility in most raids and you need to keep that in mind. Resto Shamans, Holy Priests or Resto Druids won't be paying particular attention to tank healing with you in the raid, so you need to bear in mind that you should not focus on the raid when they are in the raid. Dreamwalker is without a doubt a healer focused fight. The redeeming fact here is that mechanics are in place to ensure you do not have to focus too much on mana regen to keep your healing output high. Be confidant that you can do your part, and keep focused on your assigned responsability, and you will be absolutely fine.

  7. #7
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    I'm headed to go respec/glyph my pally now, I just got my t10 2p bonus today which i believe should help my Fear of Divine plea's Healing debuff, I get by Generaly through pure Arcane torrent, Dont think HL spam will let me get by with that. However I play a fury warrior I <3 big numbers

    Nevermind my server is down Hurray.

    Edit: Server came back up, Tried the HL In a VoA10, Wasn't bad However I'm Failing to see the Usefulness of Glyph of HL? I see that it's a splash heal but my Average HL was hitting for 11K so 11000*.1=1100 Splash, However the only Use i can see is healing Melee, or is it just a case of there is really nothing better?
    Last edited by gd_void; 08-29-2010 at 08:24 PM.
    US|Thrall|Horde Yea, I Love Plate
    Ike(Fury Warrior) Oit(Dk Tank) Oiz(Holy Pally)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by gd_void View Post
    However I'm Failing to see the Usefulness of Glyph of HL? I see that it's a splash heal but my Average HL was hitting for 11K so 11000*.1=1100 Splash, However the only Use i can see is healing Melee, or is it just a case of there is really nothing better?
    It's not bad for healing melee on "aura" fights like BQL or such, but yeah it's mostly because there's nothing better. It's really your only AoE heal anyways.

  9. #9
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    Is your fear of 'Divine plea's Healing debuff' purely because I mentioned it, or was this something you felt before you came here for advice? I'm not trying to instruct you, simply to get you to understand that nothing in the world (of Warcraft or otherwise) is set in stone. You clearly question what you did believe, else you'd never have posted this thread, but do you understand the advice that you receive in response? I encourage you to try out solutions for yourself, judge what works best for you and be sure to understand the reasons why things are right and things are wrong. You'll be a better person, and WoW player for it.

  10. #10
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    No I Almost never Use Divine plea In combat, it's simple math really my average hit with FoL was around 5.5K Keeping in mind my afore mentioned statement about having to spam and not having much wiggle room, Divine plea While grand doesn't Fit very well with that, However with HL and Having a break between heals(assuming i'm purely tank healing) 11K average heals 5.5K w/ DP up Doesn't sound quite as bad, Add In the Avenging wraith or Divine illumination buff(not Sure if that buff is added before or after the the DP buff but yea) it Doesn't seem as deathly. I take Everything into Consideration before I try it, and after, to balance that I'm Stubborn if I feel I'm a better FoL healer to meters be damned(Proved no one is dead)
    US|Thrall|Horde Yea, I Love Plate
    Ike(Fury Warrior) Oit(Dk Tank) Oiz(Holy Pally)

  11. #11
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    Your gear is actually pretty nice. Just need http://www.wowhead.com/item=40705 and you're ready to rock the rest of ICC.

    The 20% from AW and the 35% from the 2-piece are multiplicative. Meaning that if you have DI and DP up at the same time, you would be doing 1.35 * .50 = 0.675; so 67.5% healing.

    You should still look to pop DP during phase transitions or lulls in the fight. For example, on Festergut make sure to pop it after the shadow explosion, when the tank damage is minimal. On Sindragosa, pop it during every air phase, etc.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihastail View Post
    Your gear is actually pretty nice. Just need http://www.wowhead.com/item=40705 and you're ready to rock the rest of ICC.
    This. It's quite funny but this 200ilvl libram is still the best choice for a HL spammer. The reduction in the base cost of HL is a massive reduction in mana usage. HL is a big enough heal that the extra SP from all the other librams is just going to go to overheal anyay.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by gd_void View Post
    Edit: Server came back up, Tried the HL In a VoA10, Wasn't bad However I'm Failing to see the Usefulness of Glyph of HL? I see that it's a splash heal but my Average HL was hitting for 11K so 11000*.1=1100 Splash, However the only Use i can see is healing Melee, or is it just a case of there is really nothing better?
    Whenever 2 tanks are stacked on eachother (such as Marrowgar) you will basicly be healing the Beacon target for 10% more. It's not legendary, but it's a nice bonus. Also, there really is nothing better, here's hoping for better cata glyphs!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by gd_void View Post
    I take Everything into Consideration before I try it, and after, to balance that I'm Stubborn if I feel I'm a better FoL healer to meters be damned(Proved no one is dead)
    Meters be damned anyway for healers, if you focus on doing what gives you the best numbers on the meters rather than what's best for the raid you'll be a worse healer. FoL pallies often look good on the meters because they snipe a lot of heals, but that doesn't make them 'better' or mean that other healers aren't having to carry them on tank healing. You'll find as HL that you have some fights where you look completely terrible on the meters, but that certainly doesn't mean you've done a bad job, just that that fight didn't need the massive raw healing you can put out. And other fights where you'll own the meters without breaking a sweat. Not that it matters :P

    Good luck!

  15. #15
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    Very true, but with FoL healing i didn't own the meters at all. However I did Icc25 today and Owned face, To the point where i was wondering why i was so far ahead of the others, I was between 7-8K hps and the three droods were only around 3-4K hps, but anyways, I enjoyed it, but I did find that my Overhealing was high, 60-70% I'm Wondering if this can easly be explained through Beacon, and the HL splash or if i'm just doing horrible, important note however i didn't go OOM

    Edit: btw i believe i'm over haste cap now at 800 something(thanks to my shiny new shield) I'm wondering how horrible that is, it infact like 'omg change it now' or 'eh faster HL atleast'
    Last edited by gd_void; 08-31-2010 at 05:05 PM. Reason: added question
    US|Thrall|Horde Yea, I Love Plate
    Ike(Fury Warrior) Oit(Dk Tank) Oiz(Holy Pally)

  16. #16
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    Overhealing is a fact of life for a Holy Pally.

    High haste is good. 670ish is the haste cap for FoL and your instants - more is better though, I see many with 900-1000 haste because it's simply so strong.

  17. #17
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    I played a fury warrior most pf my experience on wow. I leveled a pally and at some point got enough gear to go holy. I love it! It's a challenge
    and I think what is challenging in wow is what is fun. Healing on Dreamwalker is a dream come true for fun. I've done a lot of research on being a holy pally, and I read all of the previous threads (which had some very accurate advice). I wanted to point out if you are a new healer to not forget to use judgements to gain the 15% haste buff which is godly. As I'm a Hol healer the only real game becomes positioning and mana management. Having around 1000 haste is great as it can reduce cast times for Hol to around 1.15 seconds. I also heard that engineers can do something to increase haste. I would be curious to hear from other holy pallys about two things...One is what tricks they have for mana management. Second is what macros do they use. I was thinking that a divine plea macro with wings /use trinket would be nice. I also heard there is a macro for canceling divine sac or divine gardian (not sure which) so that you don't have to bubble and can reduce raid dmg frequently.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Bung View Post
    I played a fury warrior most pf my experience on wow. I leveled a pally and at some point got enough gear to go holy. I love it! It's a challenge
    and I think what is challenging in wow is what is fun. Healing on Dreamwalker is a dream come true for fun. I've done a lot of research on being a holy pally, and I read all of the previous threads (which had some very accurate advice). I wanted to point out if you are a new healer to not forget to use judgements to gain the 15% haste buff which is godly. As I'm a Hol healer the only real game becomes positioning and mana management. Having around 1000 haste is great as it can reduce cast times for Hol to around 1.15 seconds. I also heard that engineers can do something to increase haste. I would be curious to hear from other holy pallys about two things...One is what tricks they have for mana management. Second is what macros do they use. I was thinking that a divine plea macro with wings /use trinket would be nice. I also heard there is a macro for canceling divine sac or divine gardian (not sure which) so that you don't have to bubble and can reduce raid dmg frequently.
    1000 haste will not get you 1.15second holy lights. I have 981 haste, 1021 with food buff, and in a raid with judgements of the pure up, and 5% shaman haste totem, i get 1.24second holy lights.

  19. #19
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    I heal on my Pally the way you do; FoL until I feel I need to throw out HL; I see no reason not to use the tools in your tool box to the exclusion of others.

    Dreamwalker is interesting, all I can say is keep Crusader Aura on for speed boost in the dragon and don't panic to get the green things, take your time and make sure you grab them. I assume you're glyphed for Holy Light so beacon the dragon and spam HL on yourself to get the splash heals on the dragon. Don't let your stacks fall off and make sure to throw the dragon a Lay on Hands when you get a good amount of stacks and pop your wings - you'll crit it for about 125k; it's pretty cool.

    I'm just getting the hang of the fight and on 10 man the best I've done so far is 23k hps; not great by any strech, but the flying around and grabbing stacks takes some getting used to.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bung View Post
    ...curious to hear from other holy pallys about two things...One is what tricks they have for mana management. Second is what macros do they use. I was thinking that a divine plea macro with wings /use trinket would be nice. I also heard there is a macro for canceling divine sac or divine gardian (not sure which) so that you don't have to bubble and can reduce raid dmg frequently.
    #showtooltip Divine Sacrifice
    /cancelaura Divine Sacrifice
    /cast Divine Sacrifice

    Tap once for a proper sac, tap twice to remove the damage deflection and only provide the 10% redux.

    For mana mangement, use plea early. Do not wait until you are at 20% mana. I typically use meteorite crystal + arcane torrent at around 90% (assuming I can stand and bang to stack the crystals to 20 within 12-13 seconds). When I get down to 80%, I plea and use Illumination (2pc T10). A minute or so later I'll plea again and pop wings to help with the 50% debuff.

    Plea usage is also assuming that your tanks are not going to be taking massive hits while it is active. You should definately be scheduling plea usage for times when the tank is taking "standard" damage and can be healed comfortably with gimped HL spam (ex. really shouldn't have plea up when your tank is eating a Soul Reaper, or a shambling is about to frenzy, or fester is triple stacked).

    Hope that helps a bit...
    "Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld."

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