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Thread: Losing in PvP should have a penalty.

  1. #1
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    Losing in PvP should have a penalty.

    I think if you lose in a bg, you should be penalized by losing honor equal to 50% of what you would've gained if you had won. Because the system as is teaches ppl that it's ok to lose, that it's ok to be a mindless hk farming idiot out in the middle of the battleground not contributing to the team and then calling everyone else fail when the team loses. I pvp'd in BC, and especially did premades. We cared about winning. We were passionate about it, and when in premade, we won almost all the time. I'm now working on my mage and I had fun with him while lvling and now that I'm lvl 78, I'm remembering why I've a bad tendency for quitting WoW. This being one of the reasons, the other being gearscore's role in pve, but that's not relevant to this post.

    I'm just tired of the classic case of the following in bgs: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Idiot

    It's time the WoW community actually tried to be competitive.
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  2. #2
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    While it does sound like a lovely idea it is also a bad one.

    There are 2 things that trouble me with your idea:

    1. Why should I, the individual good and skilled player, be punished for playing with others that don't perform as they should.
    2. In many Battlegroups one faction is simply dominant, has the better geared and skilled player and wins most BGs not because the other faction's players don't perform in a team or do BG-related stuff but rather because they are simply overpowered.

    All losing honor would do is discourage the faction that is usually on the losing end of BGs to queue up which results in queues of 20-30 minutes+.

    I say no to this.

  3. #3
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    Well I'm tired of people being a bunch of individual emo kids on a midfight craze not contributing to the bg causing us to lose then starting a flame war where everyone's wrong and that person is always right.

    If what you say would happen does happen, it might make people wake up from the pot and learn how to think strategically and coordinate with each other because the way things are now, we should already be facing 20-30 min queues because people are tired of losing and dealing with idiots yet they too are too senseless to stop.

    So let's go ahead and have this. It's what I want. We can just do WG.

    Furthermore, if you don't like being penalized for idiots, then let's implement an ability to vote kick out of battlegrounds. It would also fix the problem with those afkers.
    Last edited by Valandris; 09-06-2010 at 11:43 AM.
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  4. #4
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    Sounds like BG's and pugs are the same way. Premades in BG's are what guild runs are to raids. It's been my experience that if you want to succeed in a raid you go on a guild run.

  5. #5
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    Well I thought the new random bg queue system got rid of premades (Which I consider to be at least half the group organized pre-battle). Can people still use preform av enabler and make premades?
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  6. #6
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    My guild tried this last night and got the 'Group size too big to join' error.

    Instead of giving extra honor when fighting near a node or a flag, it should be changed to ONLY receiving honor when fighting near a node or flags. It should apply to both enemy or your own nodes, as well as fighting near a flag carrier in WSG; So a player is rewarded for fighting near their objectives rather than chasing random enemies in the middle of the road.

    I think Blizzard is a bit weary of the vote kick feature, as it seems the general sheeple just click 'OK' whenever they see a pop up *grumbles about raid ready check*

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kasanagi View Post
    Instead of giving extra honor when fighting near a node or a flag, it should be changed to ONLY receiving honor when fighting near a node or flags. It should apply to both enemy or your own nodes, as well as fighting near a flag carrier in WSG; So a player is rewarded for fighting near their objectives rather than chasing random enemies in the middle of the road.
    I get that frustration as well but I don't think thats a fair solution. If one side is too stupid to realize that fighting on the road (in AB) or running for the flag when you hold 0 towers in EoTS is not a good idea, that is really their problem. I've been on my fair share of frustrating pug losses largely caused by people inability to grasp the basic concepts behind BGs and the objectives and its frustrating. The whole 50% honor bonus should be enough to indicate to someone with half a brain where they should be spending most of their time, but unfortunately idiots will be idiots.

    IMHO losing in PvP is penalty enough. If I started losing honor because 90% my team think repeatedly bum-rush the flag, while ignoring towers, in EoTS is a great strat, then I think I'd either a) stop queuing or b) seriously consider faction transfer.

    I would fully support individual honor penalties in the following situations:

    * When a member of your team starts spamming BG chat with "just let them win" even though there is still a chance that either side could win/lose. eg. just cos one side caps the first flag in WSG doesn't mean the BG is automatically over.

    * When a member of your team starts spamming BG chat with anything "you guys suck L2P". In my experience, suck is a team effort.

    *Anytime someone posts in BG chat to say something like "OMG I'm top damage, you guys suck". It's kind of like the above, but also makes me wonder if these people think that damage done is what wins the BG? Generally these people are the road fighting HK chasers so they could probably get a double penalty if I was in the right mood.

  8. #8
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    How about this. Make PvP rewards only usable for PvP gear. Honor is no longer usable for mounts or gems or anything that has value in PvE. When Honor is an efficient way to buy gems, required for some mounts, etc, you're going to get people who don't want to be there (like myself) who do it because the apple is dangling there.

    Now I've tried to learn to be effective in WG despite the fact I refuse to build a PvP spec, but in all reality, PvP should instanced and self-contained. Then 85% of the friction between PvP and PvE and the people PvP-ing just for the honor is removed.
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  9. #9
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    Terrible idea, especially with the PvP trinket costing over 65 thousand honor points.

    This would only make sense if each side was matched not only according to their relative number of players, but also according to gear and skill, which is completely unfeasible.

  10. #10
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    No sport or contest has these kinds of penalties, for good reason. Losing is part of playing sometimes, you aren't going to win all of your games unless you are on some kind of atomic mutant supermen team IRL. Or you are in a battlegroup heavily dominated by one faction which unfortunately exist.

    The other thing has more to do with wow culture. Specifically people tolerate raging, whining, tantrums etc. WotLK in particular has fostered a feeling in people that they should always win and that it's other people's fault when it doesn't go perfectly. When I see someone behaving this way I put them on ignore, I'm comfortable doing this because the person has already demonstrated that they are terrible team player so there is nothing from them I want to read.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kolben View Post
    No sport or contest has these kinds of penalties, for good reason. Losing is part of playing sometimes, you aren't going to win all of your games unless you are on some kind of atomic mutant supermen team IRL. Or you are in a battlegroup heavily dominated by one faction which unfortunately exist.

    The other thing has more to do with wow culture. Specifically people tolerate raging, whining, tantrums etc. WotLK in particular has fostered a feeling in people that they should always win and that it's other people's fault when it doesn't go perfectly. When I see someone behaving this way I put them on ignore, I'm comfortable doing this because the person has already demonstrated that they are terrible team player so there is nothing from them I want to read.
    1. IRL, teams actually TRY to win. These knuckleheads in WoW bgs don't even try.
    2. WoTLK actually fosters a feeling like buttonmashing/hk farming is how one must win, and in bgs specifically, it fosters the "oh it's ok if you lose, you still get a reward" feeling.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Losing in PvP should have a penalty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valandris View Post
    So let's go ahead and have this. It's what I want. We can just do WG.
    I say let's not go through with this. Who wants to wait in a 20-30 minute queue just to get stuck with the retards and lose half their honor. Only to wait another 20-30 minutes.

    I play on reckoning which is for the most part an alliance run bg. I my self have good bg and arena experience. However I will completely stop quoting if I have to wait 30 minutes just to see if I get paired with intelligent players.

    Also in cata rated bg's are coming our. In which you will get paired with other player at your skill level based on your success in bg's. You don't gain rating if you lose because blizzard unlike yourself understands that while there are competitive players out there, you cannot force every single person who wishes to pvp to be competitive. This game is all about having fun. If you cannot accept that others have fun in different ways than you yourself. Than perhaps you should take a step back and re-evaluate yourself.via it frustrating to play with players who aren't as skilled as you are... yea it is. You just need to accept that everyone plays on a different level. Some are hardcore, some are semi-serious, and others are casual, just like raiding. From a marketing aspect you cannot feasilby force people to be hardcore, without losing a major portion of your subscribers. The best thing you can do is what they are implementing, which is to rate payers on their success and match them accordingly. As you improve and get stronger, so will your opponents. So relax, chill, and enjoy the game, changes are coming to balance out pvp for the better.


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  13. #13
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    I'm not calling myself skilled or hardcore, I'm casual, the problem I have with most pvpers is the apparent lack of competence in strategy.
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  14. #14
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    I slightly agree with you, but I really dont think theres an easily reachable middle ground for penalties regarding losing. What i have thought about and talked a lot with all my pvp-er friends is that battleground queues should have a system sort of similar to the dungeon finder, except without a tankqueue. I think battlegrounds should have a minimum number of healers, or, since that would probably mean worse queue times, the number of healers on ally/horde should be equal. Half of the time when i get into a match where my team gets dominated, besides the horrible players who have no grasp of strategy, the fact that we have one healer while horde has 3 resto druids and 2 disc priests and 1 pally healer really doesnt help.
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  15. #15
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    of course who's to say a healer won't queue as a dpser? Same situation still going on.
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