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Thread: What builds do prot wars like so far?

  1. #61
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    Well, I could certainly see it as being viable if you need the points. Although it's been posted quite a bit on the beta forums, Hold the Line has never really been adjusted and is numerically very, very weak.

    Although I would typically grab it, I think it's more habit now than anything else. When it was a Tier 1 talent, it was fairly easy of a choice, but now that it's not it's less appealing. Overall, it probably makes very close to no difference in your overall survivability, so I certainly wouldn't lose sleep over it in a general-purpose build. (I also only recently realized they had changed it from Attack Power to Critical % on the Hold the Line proc, which is quite a lot less valuable for threat compared to the old version.)

    That build you posted is probably a rather nice general-purpose build.

    Hold the Line will be pretty weak until they either resolve Critical Block being a 2-roll system or when you get enough Mastery to raise your Block chance to be very high.
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  2. #62
    What's the uptime on Hold the Line, single target and multi? I would have thought that +10% Critical Strike would alone make that talent a must have, unless the uptime is alot lower than it appears.

  3. #63
    Regarding prot specs, I'm looking at this for 5mans.

    Get rid of both Vigilance and Concussion Blow, and use those points to buff dmg, threat, and self-healing (Field Dressing, Blood Craze, Incite+War Academy).

    We'll see if I can get by without Conc Blow in Cata 5mans. I'm not sure a 5s stun every 30 will count as CC, whereas I find myself working Cleave and Heroic Strike into my rotations pretty frequently in between GCDs on DV, RV, SS.
    Last edited by Kurtosis; 10-10-2010 at 04:03 AM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahadija View Post
    Since I know theorycraft suggests that Hold the Line is a weak talent, and the all-purpose build has only one point in it in any case, could the point viably be moved to finish Incite like so:

    http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#LGZhbZIchdRRodbu

    Or would it be a mistake to sacrifice a survivability talent, however poor?
    That's what I'm planning, except one point from war academy across to get piercing howl (I'm an old fan of piercing howl in prot builds and glad to be able to get it without major sacrifice).

  5. #65
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    This is the build I currently use in the beta to tank heroics.

    http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#LRb0bZhZfcGdRRodou


    Just a few comments. I am not a fan of blood and thunder. It is not necessary to aoe tank.

    People are going to ask why did you get Drums of War? It's quite simple the amount of damage you take in cata heroics is insane. Demoralizing shout reduces all physical damage by 10%. Being able to cast it and not lose any rage on the start of a pull is vital. Also being able to interrupt at the start of the pool and in low rage situations is amazing. Especially when Heroic Throw is on cd.

    For everybody posting threat builds and what not. Threat hasn't really been an issue, survival is.

  6. #66
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    I have to say I am not too thrilled with the prot talent tree for this expac. I feel that alot of the "fun" talents that blizzard wanted to add to each tree are things that I would not take if I had a choice in the matter. The fact that I generally don't have a choice in the matter is a problem. Blood and Thunder sounds reasonable in theory but the only time its actually going to be helpful (having not playing the beta and speculating on experience), is going to be for AoE whelp style pulls. Of which, I have heard, there are not too many.

    Using Blood and Thunder in a tighter tougher group would mean that you aren't worried about CCing anything and can thunderclap your heart out but even then, what kind of a hit are you taking in your TPS on the focus target in order to be able to apply rend and spread it out over the couple of mobs in front of you. It just doesn't seem like a good talent based on the dungeons I have read/seen.

    On the other side of that you have Incite which if it were implemented in our little patch 3.3 world would be awesome due to our heroic strike spam, seems to be a little weak and not something I am greatly interested in for Cataclysm. I havent played beta so I don't actually know how often we are in a situation to use Heroic strike but I don't like having to dump 2 points into it just to get out of my first tier (cause blood and thunder looks terrible).

    Moving down my focus turns to Shield mastery. This is a talent that I would consider good due to the number of talents it affects but not really optional when put side by side with Gag order. Gag order is a fun talent that I have used successfully on many occasions but I just cannot bring myself to spec into that if I am really trying to be the most optimal tank out there. I know how to bounce around well enough with Warbringer and use my taunts and cooldowns to manage spread out casters. The reason I compare this with Shield Mastery when you don't need either to get out of Tier 2, is because you need one of them to be able to fill out your tree.

    This comes around to an inherent problem with the protection tree. There are alot of talents that are so situational that I don't want them when I am thinking of general PvE focus but am forced to take something in order to complete the tree. I mean, when the hell am I going to use Impending Victory? Unless the majority of bosses I start facing start hitting so much harder when they get below 20% that I absolutely must start contributing something to my own healing, then I am never going to take that talent. It seems remarkably weak. Safeguard? Right below shockwave? What are you friggen' kidding me? That was a talent that I only used during Protection PvP in arena and it did good things. However when you go into a 5-man dungeon, I don't care how difficult that dungeon is you are not going to have to rely on the protection of Safeguard to save the healer. If MAY occasionally keep you from wiping but honestly it wouldn't be anything that you couldn't have executed with better control and smarter play anyway (given the number of stuns and taunts that we have at our disposal).

    I just feel very down on the whole tanking scenario that prot warriors are going to have to follow with their talent trees. There are several talents in both early arms and fury that I want but can not have until I make the dreaded decision between Blood and Thunder, Incite, or Gag Order. I really wish that Blizz re-evaluated the usefulness of the talents in the tree for your everyday tank given common circumstances. I just don't see this tree being nearly as interesting as our DPS trees.
    "If I'm doing a fight and I need more threat... I try harder. If I'm doing a fight and I need my taunts not to miss, then I wear hit." -Veneretio

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by hayward View Post
    If you start playing wow ,than search "some silly website"on google ,maybe it is good to you !
    Hey look, a spammer selling virii. Is there a report feature?
    Last edited by Dacian; 10-10-2010 at 09:18 PM. Reason: removed website

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahadija View Post
    Since I know theorycraft suggests that Hold the Line is a weak talent, and the all-purpose build has only one point in it in any case, could the point viably be moved to finish Incite like so:

    http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#LGZhbZIchdRRodbu

    Or would it be a mistake to sacrifice a survivability talent, however poor?
    Yeah actually that's probably the best bet for an all purpose build. I didn't realize Blood and Thunder stunk as badly as Koji says it does.

  9. #69
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    Does glyph of Shield Wall in beta currently give you an extra 20% reduced damage, but has 2mins more cooldown ? I take it Last Stand glyph has been phased out ?
    Marking targets, coordinating CC, and *most importantly*, pulling responsibly so that 9 elites didn't rush us and wipe the party, this Is something I have missed since nov 08.

  10. #70
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    I've spent the last 2 expansions playing a Protection Paladin and will be jumping the fence for this upcoming one, so my knowledge and experience with Warriors is a little limited.

    However, I had a few things I wanted to say about Impending Victory. While I understand it is a huge TPS loss, is that really important given the part of the fight where this becomes an option? A lot of what I've seen and heard through videos and speaking with beta testing healers is that it'd be really difficult not to have this work as effective healing equal to about a medium heal (Holy Light, Heal, etc.) during a traditionally enrage prone moment of an encounter.

    One last question as well...does the Victory Rush major glyph affect it at all?

  11. #71
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    That assumes that boss enrages or sticky points are confined to sub-20%, which is anything but a sure thing.

    I would also say that the TPS loss is not great given that: a) Everyone else does more damage during Enrage time, so it's not the best time to be losing TPS and b) The current healing amount isn't really worth the loss and talent points.

    I honestly cannot come up with much of a reason to spec into the talent. It could be made quite interesting with one or two minor changes, but it has sadly remained quite the same ever since it appeared.
    Maintainer of Rawr.ProtWarr theorycrafting tool. Feel free to PM suggestions or feature requests!

  12. #72
    I'm currently using this spec on the beta and plan onto on live

    http://wowtal.com/#k=IOLmfQdz.a5o.warrior.-TPMVw

    I think with where rage is currently that booming voice is a very very attractive option. Also, blood and thunder being a tier one protection talent makes it pretty easy to spec into it without losing a lot by doing so. If I were in a single target environment like a boss I'd probably spec into Heavy Repercussions, or War academy. I can't justify Hold the line for anything. And, I think a lot of warriors arn't quite getting they wont have bloodrage anymore. You get commanding shout yes, but that's only 20 rage to start and there isn't the other 10 rage over ten seconds anymore. Also, I'd like to note you won't be able to really charge into a mob that needs to be crowd controlled because you'll take a lot of damage because your forcing yourself into a AE enviroment so in closing You probably wont get the rage from charging a mob to get snap rage and the 10 rage from blood rage and with something like booming voice where you get 30 rage every 30 seconds I can't argue against specing into it for almost all situations withstanding a boss fight.

  13. #73
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    Aloha all,

    Can i ask y u don't use "Heavy Repercussions" and put them in "Impending Victory" while Shield Slam is a basic ability of our class?

    Thanx,
    Last edited by snowbrdlover; 10-11-2010 at 04:01 PM.

  14. #74
    Certainly, I don't use it because it's a damage talent its something that will increase damage to shield slam. Yes shield slam is the hardest hitting thing that is in a protection warriors arsenal I just believe that there are better things to spec into. When rage becomes a non issue I would potentially take the points from booming voice and use them there that or blood academy. It's just that it doesn't do anything out of the ordinary to increase your tankability.

  15. #75
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    Thank you for your quick and clear answer big

  16. #76
    Also, with impending victory you could move the talents to something like heavy repercussions if you choose. With the current state of mana I like having the ability to give a little 8-9k heal when the healers really need the help. The talent will scale with gear very nicely. I know people don't like blood and thunder to. But, for the sake of taking it for utility I have no idea how you can turn it down. You are going to use thunderclap and demo shout all the time now so why not the threat from rend on all targets plus thunderclap plus shockwave should make pulls easier. The game is less AE but still if a mob gets loose who is going to tell me you don't AE and you single target the mob your on and then someone dies and you blame them for not ccing.

  17. #77
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    If Impending Victory was available all the time, I would agree. You could give it to the healers when they needed the help. Unfortunately, since you will barely get to use it at all in a heroic boss fight and still have huge limitations on it in raids, you can't really do that. The sub-20% limitation kills it considering it's not even a large heal at all.
    Maintainer of Rawr.ProtWarr theorycrafting tool. Feel free to PM suggestions or feature requests!

  18. #78
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    From my experience on the beta..

    Impending Victory may not be as useful initially in heroics and the 5% heal may not seem a lot. However later on with Field Dressing, Glyph of Victory Rush, Larger health pools and long boss encounters being able to heal for (%5 + 1%) + 50% = 9k (100k Health Pool) every 10 secs or so at the end of a fight (sub 20%) especially with healers mana being at a premium it might even become part of an emergency rotation.

    Incite, yes it looks like a nice talent however I barely get time to use Heroic Strike let alone spam it twice in a row in an heroic. If your going with this talent then you would obviously want War Academy as well so that's 6 pts to buff an ability that you might be only using on boss fights. At 83 we will get Inner Rage which means its probably best to use Heroic Strike when inner rage is on CD. It could also turn out that HS produces a stupid amount of threat and has to be the only ability to use when your rage capped, so far on beta that's not the case but time will tell.

    Blood and Thunder is a good talent, it helps with picking up incoming adds, generating threat on mobs that you are not directly attacking and Thunder Clap will refresh the Rend. I would only not use it if I was building a spec for a specific boss encounter.

    Shield Specilization for me is something I will be looking to save some points in, I have had no issues with rage in the beta.

    With Warriors being able to produce more rage when off tanking from the Sentinal ability Safeguard will become useful especially when the MT is about to take a big hit and you can reduce it by 30%. Definitely situational for 10/25 mans but probably not something you would have for a generic heroic/10 man PvE build.

    Vigilance I think has a lot of value for 1 point, helps with taunts in 5 mans and helps with damage reduction and threat generation when off tanking. Will warriors be the ultimate OT in Cata?

    Really looking forward to when some people can come up with solid numbers about the threat generated by these new abilities.
    Last edited by World; 10-12-2010 at 10:21 AM.

  19. #79
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    Keep in mind that, generally speaking, Heroic Strike is currently much better to use than Inner Rage if you are not in a near infinite-rage scenario. Prot Warriors can use Heroic Strike virtually on cooldown most of the time.

    Shield Spec provides Rage and translates to higher Inner Rage uptime, and therefore is pretty valuable.
    Maintainer of Rawr.ProtWarr theorycrafting tool. Feel free to PM suggestions or feature requests!

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by bigshootr8 View Post
    When rage becomes a non issue I would potentially take the points from booming voice and use them there that or blood academy.
    Fwiw, from my experience in the beta so far, rage is still a non-issue for prot warriors, at least with 3/3 Shield Spec. Not quite as infinite as in Wrath, but still enough to spam abilities like I do in Wrath.

    Are others hitting circumstances where this isn't the case, rage is limited, and you have to closely manage your rage usage?

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