What builds do prot wars like so far?

[Katzazi]

Can't speak for anyone else, but personally I'm just wondering if a single-target tank spec will still have enough aoe threat from untalented base abilities alone to suffice for whatever aoe needs Cata throws at us.

If so, and Wars can focus on talent-buffing single-target abilities like SS and HS (the latter of which feels weak so far without Incite and War Academy), then we might be able to contribute a little more to the single-target dps than had we otherwise would have.

Even in Wrath, the ability to squeeze every ounce of single-target dps out of a raid on most boss encounters was valuable, and Cata seems to be heading in that direction even more.

You don't have to trade single-target threat talents against AoE threat abilities in Cata. First we don't have much single-target talents in our main tree to begin with. The two not every tank may take at the current build are Incite and Impending Victory. At the moment Impending Victory does not much help our single target dmg/threat. Maybe that will change later on. You probably do at least comparable dmg/threat with Blood & Thunder.

However you have to start with a decision between points in B&T and Incite. This is the one decisioin where we can decide between AoE and single target (especially since HS is probably not used in situations with more than one mob). When you want to focus on every possible single-target dps you would probably not want to spend points in Impending Victory, Vigilance, Safeguard and Thunderstruck. So you have to go up in the tree to reach tiers 5, 6 and 7 anyway. That are 7 points. But you only need 6 points to get every other talent that's there. So you have at least 1 point that you cannot put into your core survival and single target talents (2 if you consider not taking shockwave). You can use this point for Vigilance or Safeguard but it may be a good idea to open up one of the two AoE talents.

If we do not even need all the rage from Shield Specialization some of the points could be better somewhere else, too. On the other hand, if we end with so few rage that we cannot HS regularly Incite is not a real buff for single target dmg/threat anyway. We have to wait for the balancing to know this.

My point is: You don't have to decide between single target and AoE threat. While you can try to avoid one of them it would be more naturally to end with a spec that is somewhere in between and has some of both.

[Kojiyama]

Keep in mind, excess Rage is not 'wasted' due to Inner Rage--it is just translated into a temporary damage buff. Therefore Shield Specialization is a net DPS increase regardless of if you 'need' the Rage or not. (In fact, it's a bigger DPS increase if you don't need the Rage.)

Also, I would say Vigilance will be taken in most boss-oriented raiding specs simply due to its utility for providing higher Vengeance stacks when there is another tank around--either for off-tanking or to prevent drop-offs due to small periods of not being hit.

With the new structure, I would not at all be surprised if most tanks just grabbed Blood and Thunder in Tier 1 and skipped Incite. Honestly, Incite is not very great for Protection and was only really taken in the previous builds as a back-filler to min/max single-target DPS. If given the choice between Incite and Blood and Thunder specifically, I'm guessing most will take Blood and Thunder. (I have to say that I'm not a fan of the new Tier 1 structure, as it really restricts the choices we have in terms of our floating points...but that's another issue.)

[Katzazi]

Excess Rage is wasted if you enter Inner Rage often enough without it. I don't want to say, that this will be the case, I just want to say that we don't know how useful it will be at the end. And if we want to take all 3 points. If one would like to take Incite, rage generating or saving talents are a good idea, anyway. But if you need those rage talents only to be able to use Incite I think it's not worth is. Because that are many points you could possibly bring to better use somewhere else.

About Vigilance: I will definitely take it but I always liked it (not because of the threat part, I never liked this part). But most warriors I speak think it's not worth the point.

[Kojiyama]

Inner Rage turns off once you drop below a Rage threshold, so unless you have virtually infinite rage (which is not the design intent), excess Rage won't ever really be wasted or even wastable.

You would need to be able to sustain both Heroic Strike spam and manage the increased Rage cost from Inner Rage forever before that would happen--which is nowhere even close to happening currently on beta.

Warriors who think Vigilance isn't worth the point most likely do not have a solid understanding about how Vengeance works and how quickly it falls off when you are not getting hit.

[Katzazi]

Inner Rage turns off once you drop below a Rage threshold, so unless you have virtually infinite rage (which is not the design intent), excess Rage won't ever really be wasted or even wastable.

Yes, I know. That's why I wrote "often enough". I should have probably wrote something like "long enough". I know that something like this is not happening on beta at the moment. But since rage stays dependent on incoming dmg and nobody on beta has faced a single raid boss, we don't know how much rage a tank will have at the end. I doubt that we will be near infinite rage because Blizz does not like such a concept. But it will be more while single target tanking a boss than single targeting a leveling mob.

Rage cannot be wasted. So the talent point cannot be wasted if put into Shield Spec. But you can say something like this for nearly every possible talent. The question is, if you gain more for using the point for Shield Spec of by choosing something else. And for talents like Shield Specialization you have to do this for each of the 3 points. Since you probably have to compare more rage to some utility it will come down to the question if you "enter or stay in IR often/long enough" with one point less in Shield Spec so you can get the utility.

[Petninja]

5-5-31
is what I'm thinking about right now. I don't view Hold The Line as very impressive, but I feel Incite is even less impressive, so as a filler I have one point in Hold The Line. Depending on what encounters look like Rude Interruption and Piercing Howl might be good alternatives to War Academy.

[Arterius]

I'm liking 4/6/31

http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#LMbZhb0oZcfudRRodbu

That point in Piercing Howl is filler, could go with Rude Interuptions but it looks like a lot of DPS classes will be getting a similar talent, so I'll let them handle interupts.

[Knytestorme]

Looking at the new talent calc I'm wondering on the following spec for primarily 5-man content. I'd like to get incite but I'm not sure where I could pull the points from, so feedback would be appreciated...especially if it's felt to not be needed

http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#LG00bZ0bZcfGdRRodbu

[klausi]

Even in Wrath, the ability to squeeze every ounce of single-target dps out of a raid on most boss encounters was valuable, and Cata seems to be heading in that direction even more.

Not really with prot warriors being (actually) the only tanking class getting a higher +%aggro modifier instead of higher damage output for more tps.

[Bung]

I have something like this in mind.

http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#LGZhbZfMGdRRodbu

I was thinking that as a fury/prot duel specced player that this build would give me a somewhat balanced aoe/single target spec for prot.

[Kurtosis]

I'd like to get incite but I'm not sure where I could pull the points from, so feedback would be appreciated...especially if it's felt to not be needed

So far it's not looking like it'll be needed. The Devastate - Revenge - SS rotation is so tight there's no much extra room for HS.

But if you really want it, I'd take the points from Blood & Thunder and one from Shield Spec. B&T is just annoying to keep up, and SS is about the only talent you can afford to take a point from, in the Prot Tree at least.

[Kurtosis]

I have something like this in mind.

http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#LGZhbZfMGdRRodbu

I was thinking that as a fury/prot duel specced player that this build would give me a somewhat balanced aoe/single target spec for prot.

That's my preferred prot spec so far too, although I'm not sure whether to get 2/3 Incite or 2/2 B&T in the first tier. Probably won't know for sure till after I hit 85 on live. I think newly mana-constrained healers will appreciate buffed self-hots from Field Dressing and Blood Craze.

[Bodasafa]

Am I the only one that seems really confused about why we have so much increase to our shield slam damage, through talents, glyphs, and our T11 bonus.

I mean didn't they cap the amount of damage we could do with our SS in WotLK because clothies were crying about getting their heads ripped off in PvP?

Don't get me wrong I love big Shield Slams.

[Arikak]

Am I the only one that seems really confused about why we have so much increase to our shield slam damage, through talents, glyphs, and our T11 bonus.

I mean didn't they cap the amount of damage we could do with our SS in WotLK because clothies were crying about getting their heads ripped off in PvP?

Don't get me wrong I love big Shield Slams.

Well, I can only think that they are hoping that healthpools scale upwards at about the same rate Shield Slam damage will scale up. Which seems like wishful thinking. Incoming nerftrain.

[Jonnyrocker]

From what i have read they have already nerfed the SS dmg in one of the beta builds.

[Unix]

http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#LGZbbZIfGdRRob0u
Didn't take vigilance since I am instancing. Mobs hit hard enough that vengeance build up fast enough.
With everyone at at last 70k hp, shield slam damage is no longer that big of an issue: you wouldnt have people getting 1 shotted by a shield slam.

I find blood and thunder a good replacement to damaging shield.
I wish incite work with cleave. Atm i find it pretty weak.

[Rampart]

Something like http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#LMZhb...odbu:0oVsV0MVk for single target. Got 1 free point for whatever.

[Brage]

I see pretty much all of you taking shield specialization. Is this because of encountered rage problems in Cataclysm, a constant "inner rage" buff or simply because you got the current live situation in mind?

I've been thinking about builds without any points in shield specialization simply because i've heard reports of rage being abundant. Granted i haven't tested it myself.

[JollyWarrior]

Hey Koji, can you share with us your thoughts on the current Thunderstruck talent? It seems weaving in thunderclap more than is necessary will feel bulky and fuck with the rotations, but if +30% damage to Shockwave generates enough threat/damage, it seems worth it. Also, does Thunderstruck stack with another players effect, or is it personal stack only? (i.e. if the MT and OT are warriors and each has Thunderstruck and each thunderclaps to keep that buff up.)

[IKT]

http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#LMZIbZfbGdRRodbu

depending on rage, if rage is an issue then move 3 over from battle trance to shield spec.