top tanks on server not gemming for straight stam?

[praetoria]

Its not that their DPS is bad, it's just that it largely depends on what kind of DPS they have. For instance Kitties and warriors are probably the worst in terms of threat because we are capable if ridiculous DPS/TPS, are in melee, and have no wipe just a flat 80%. Any guild without a high end kitty or warrior will probably only notice hunters who are very awesome vigilance targets, are ranged, and can wipe threat so really are a non-issue. I am not surprised high end tanks don't notice this but to deny it as an issue and instead counter with "lrn2play newb" is ludicrous.

I also know for a fact my druid in tanking gear can out-TPS my warrior by a fairly large amount so perhaps it's just a warrior tank issue ... I am not sure of how much TPS a paladin or DK is theoretically capable of but I do know, even with the 30% buff, warriors in EH gear cap out in the low 11k range on perfect connections with perfect rotations ... and that's just flat out not enough to keep up with a 15k+ DPS fury or kitty. The math just doesn't support it.

you know you made a good point. to be exact, im battling with a 6500gs fury warrior with shadowsedge, a 13k kitty, a hunter, and sometimes a warlock. mages are last on my list of wows. maybe ill just go 5% vigilance glyph on the warrior.. id rather not though.. maybe just for fights like rot and fester

[Bovinity]

I'm just confused as to how you got off on a tangent about threat vs. EHP in hardmodes with ultra-geared DPS when my comment was about how tanks in normal mode farm content could get away with gemming anything.

[Akeber]

Our MT (who is geared 100% for EH, not TPS) theoretical maximum TPS is only 11.1k in a perfect world with every buff and no lag.

Is this from rawr? According to that my lowly alt 5.8 K gs warrior, entirely gemmed/chanted for EH, "theories" out to 11.6K TPS in rawr, with the 30% buff enabled. That's at 198 hit, 24 expertise, and after taking off the dps trinkets. Gimme some tricks/mds at the start, sprinkle a few MDs during the fight, and I'll hold threat from your druid with no issues.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...Isles&cn=Oswyn

Now if you want to boost threat here and there for specific encounters, leave the stam gems alone, and swap on some dps trinkets or maybe a dps peice or two with hit. Why make a semi-permanent gem changes when swapping trinkets will have a similar effect.

And here you are again with your misinformation. Taunt has a 17% miss rate. The glyph adds 8% or brings it down to 9%. Improved FF or shadowpriest can drop this to 6%. The rest is on the warrior. If you can 100% guarantee you have a boomkinn or shadowpriest in every raid 6% makes them not miss (most tanks have this), if not as is often the case in 10 mans, 9% is your goal (which most tanks do not have). Facts are key to stemming the flow of misinformation.

17% - 8% (glyph) - 3% (imp FF or spriest) = 6% needed from gear.

As for the "with the 30% buff you don't need as much HP so it's okay to gem hit/exp" argument, unless you've got the whole place cleared, including HM LK, you'll still need all the EH you can get for progression bosses.

I'm not "against" setting up a threat set for farm bosses. Quite the contrary, I wear a couple pieces of DPS gear (with hit) and dps trinks for farm bosses that I'm not worried about survival on, but I leave my real "tanking" gear gemmed and chanted for EH.

[Bovinity]

17% - 8% (glyph) - 6% (imp FF or spriest) = 3% needed from gear. ICC rep ring covers half that on it's own.

Imp FF is 3% - not 6% - is it not?

Also, ICC Rep ring, eww.

[feralminded]

you know you made a good point. to be exact, im battling with a 6500gs fury warrior with shadowsedge, a 13k kitty, a hunter, and sometimes a warlock. mages are last on my list of wows. maybe ill just go 5% vigilance glyph on the warrior.. id rather not though.. maybe just for fights like rot and fester

Well to be fair I wouldn't reglyph. What we have had to do is just front-load threat on the tank from the raid (2 hunters, 1 rogue) and then see if you can't have a paladin Hand of Salvation your problem DPS about 30-45 seconds into the fight and every time its on CD and they probably won't catch back up after the 2nd one. But that is some pretty serious hoops to jump through to support your DPS. Again this isn't an issue on LK which is probably when it matters most ... but it is frustrating that so many hoops have to be jumped through to support players doing the "right" thing.

[Fetzie]

17(cap)-3(mis/iFF)-8(glyph)=6%=157 hit rating needed to cap taunt

[praetoria]

Now if you want to boost threat here and there for specific encounters, leave the stam gems alone, and swap on some dps trinkets or maybe a dps peice or two with hit. Why make a semi-permanent gem changes when swapping trinkets will have a similar effect

yea, because changing a few jems that with socket bonuses allow me to give maybe 50-60 stam up a terrible idea compared to putting in a dps trinket where i loose 200+ stam, and/or armor value, health increase. exct.. thats nutz.

[Bovinity]

yea, because changing a few jems that with socket bonuses allow me to give maybe 50-60 stam up a terrible idea

So that's 2 gems? Just how much TPS are you gaining from switching those two gems out?

[Fetzie]

I have my last laugh enchanted with strength, the T9 retri libram and a second gunship heroic shield with the titanium plating and a 20 str gem for when I want to give my tps a decent push.

[praetoria]

" According to that my lowly 5.8 K gs warrior, entirely gemmed/chanted for EH, "theories" out to 11.6K TPS in rawr, with the 30% buff enabled"

I wish logs reflected threat. show me a prot warr with a5.8 gs hitting 11k threat. Its not realistic. in theory 2 trains traveling at 60mph on the same track headed right for eachother will never make contact. but reality proves different.

[Bovinity]

in theory 2 trains traveling at 60mph on the same track headed right for eachother will never make contact. but reality proves different.

Um, what theory is that?

[praetoria]

"Why make a semi-permanent gem changes when swapping trinkets will have a similar effect. "

this is a fair question. and it depends on ur realm. in my realm jems cost about 45g uncut. i have unlimited jems if i run a few heroics a day at no cost. I personally would much rather jem for an extra 50 str and take advantage of socket bonus to reduce the loss of ehp over loosing an entire trinket.

[praetoria]

Um, what theory is that?

LOL- google it.. its a math problem.. thru fractions, you can prove that 2 trains on a 1 mile trach moving at 50mph each will never touch

[Bovinity]

LOL- google it.. its a math problem.. thru fractions, you can prove that 2 trains on a 1 mile trach moving at 50mph each will never touch

Xeno's paradox is not a theory or a proof. It's a thought exercize.

[Terra]

LOL- google it.. its a math problem.. thru fractions, you can prove that 2 trains on a 1 mile trach moving at 50mph each will never touch

Can I have some of what you're having? I'm afraid you might be referring to if two objects are constantly splitting their distance they will never touch.. but that's not what's stated. Give me a SPECIFIC link to something stating two objects moving towards each other at x velocity will never meet please...

[Akeber]

I personally would much rather jem for an extra 50 str and take advantage of socket bonus to reduce the loss of ehp over loosing an entire trinket.

So you need the EH, you just don't NEED the EH. I get it.

[praetoria]

So that's 2 gems? Just how much TPS are you gaining from switching those two gems out?

depends on ur gear, and the socket bonus. in my gear set i was able to loose 55 stat to gain 50 str. ( i might be off slightly, at the moment im not using that configuration) but thats a hell of a lot better then loosing 240 stam or 196 stam from a trinket.

[praetoria]

Can I have some of what you're having? I'm afraid you might be referring to if two objects are constantly splitting their distance they will never touch.. but that's not what's stated. Give me a SPECIFIC link to something stating two objects moving towards each other at x velocity will never meet please...

yes, tamato ta-ma-tow.. same difference

[praetoria]

So you need the EH, you just don't NEED the EH. I get it.

I dont think need was ever discussed. I think the tradeoff is being discussed..

[praetoria]

Xeno's paradox is not a theory or a proof. It's a thought exercize.

my point exactly