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Thread: A New Hero class, just a thought

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unger View Post
    What about instead of a new healing class, a new ROLE withing a raid environment?

    Tank
    Healer
    DPS
    "NEW ROLE"

    The new role would be a hybrid that would allow some heals and/or dps but their primary function would be to provide buffs to allies or debuffs for MOBS? You cant do a raid without tanks, heals or dps, but if this could be tune properly, it could boost the effectiveness of any of those roles to allow for less of them. For example, if you normally need 6 healers for a raid, perhaps you could do it with 5 and this role because of the effect it has on the healers and their abilities.

    I know it would be a nightmare to balance.... so it likely wont happen.... but the use of this could allow raids that wouldnt get off the ground to happen. Maybe a dps plate class could tank if you had a healer and one of these classes, thus removing the need for a tank in a 5 man?

    It could buff heals through a channel to his teammates, debuff bosses so mobs do less damage, etc.....

    Yeah I know.... no way, right?
    They could call the new role CC! it could give some additional responsibilities to DPS (other than topping the meters that is). :P
    But seriously, there isn't really room for another completely original class in the game even though I agree SP plate is kindof a waste. I'll probably play whatever it ends up being when it comes out tho

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petninja View Post
    If you ask me, the reason there is a healer shortage is because people don't want the responsibility/don't find whack-a-mole fun. Adding a new healer class isn't going to solve anything in the long run. The reasons queue times as dps are so long is because there are no tanks around, and DKs didn't solve that any.
    There's also the fact that there's less demand for tanks above the 5 man level. a 5 man group requires 1 tank. 10 man requires 2. 25 man requires 3 currently and for all but a few fights in ICC even thats arguable. That also contributes to the tank shortage.

  3. #23
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    Well I do have a friend who liked to tell me about a character he played in another MMO. I'm not quite certain but I think the game was either City of Heroes or Everquest and I'm also not quite certain but I think the character class was a monk? The way he described his class is he wasn't there to heal, or tank, or dps. His job was to buff his party, debuff the other enemies and to throw out CCs and some AoE effects.

  4. #24
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    I think a new role would be good. Tank, Healer, DPS, Support.

    One example might be a bard. Unique melee/tank/range/caster buffs that only bards bring (though that goes against Blizzards uniformity changes to make it so you don't need a rainbow so people bring players, not classes). Plus some range attack. Weakest DPS but raid DPS increase.

    Or turn Frost Mages into a combination Disc/Mage class. Cast their armors and protections on other players, provide more CC, and again, lower DPS but allows you running with 2.5 healers in a 10 man because of their Disc-lite abilities. Maybe Demonolgy Locks as well?

    Rogues and Hunters it's hard to come up with anything that resembles a workable 2nd role, but Mages and Locks seems like they could become a hybrid DPS/healer roll or bards as a true support role (though not sure I'd call it a 'Hero' class).

    ****

    In terms of a hero class, you'd almost need more of a hero race/class combination? Half Dragons? Give them 3 trees, 1 healer, 1 tank, 1 melee DPS. Wears mail. Each tree activiates different innate abilities that provide the heroic feel?

    In terms of lore, Deathwing bursts forth with an army of half-breed dragons, created by XYZ and designed as fodder for battle. Maybe not even release it until all 3 drop raids are downed on a server, some sort of storyline where part of the fodder is freed? Very similar to DKs though.... Maybe a rogue faction of Red Dragons, long driven under ground for their desire to bring up the lesser races and resort to procreating with them while in huminoid form? After all 3 initial raids are down, they return to the surface to lend their assistance, noticing the time is now for their acceptance?

    And the Half dragons would be either Dragon/Human or Dragon/Blood Elf?
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  5. #25
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    They are hiding underground, the half dragons are clearly dwarf/dragon hybrids. They aren't coming out to lend their assistance, they just notice the time is now for restocking their ale supply. (I mean, how else do you get dragons and dwarves to breed?)

    Support classes are quite common in other MMOs and RPGs, I don't think it'll work for WoW in its current form though. It sounds much more fun to me to have every class/spec providing multiple meaningful functions (dps, healing, mitigation, buffs, CC etc) than having separate roles specializing in one function (support) and have a few tricks that are icing and not really needed (weak dps).

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petninja View Post
    If you ask me, the reason there is a healer shortage is because people don't want the responsibility/don't find whack-a-mole fun. Adding a new healer class isn't going to solve anything in the long run. The reasons queue times as dps are so long is because there are no tanks around, and DKs didn't solve that any.
    I agree with the responsibility. In my experience if something doesn't die in the first one or two attempts it's usually the healers or the tanks that take much of the blame. I'd also say that in many ways healing is the one role that requires you to pay the most attention to whats going on. Lets face it, at this point DPS can largely get away with averting there eyes to watch tv for a few seconds and generally nothing really bad will happen. When you're tanking (unless it's progression sort of stuff) you can also zone out a little particularly if you over gear the content. With healing though you look away for a second and some spaced out dps (who was probably looking away to watch TV :P) has managed to stumble into the fire while pulling some unwanted adds. By the time you look back the DPS is dead screaming "WTF where were my heals".

    TLDR; healing is the hardest role to slack off on.

  7. #27
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    The problem with "support" classes is that.. they are generally not very rewarding to play, leading to few people playing them. The game must also be balanced around their existance (making them mandatory, but they are not that fun to play, remember?), or not (which leads to them becoming utterly useless).

    One possible explanation for their lack of popularity is that it is extremely hard to quantify their success in a group environment. With a tank you can ask if any group members die from unwanted aggro - if yes, the tank succeeded. With the healer you can ask if the tank/group stayed alive through the stuff they are supposed to live through - if yes, the healer succeeded. For dps it's even easier, just take a look at the meters. For support classes, however, it gets alot harder. Their very presence is supposed to be their contribution, and that can not be quantified in a meaningful way, and it does not lead to a rewarding gameplay. If allowed to do "some" dps as a secondary job, they will find themselves last on every meter, if allowed to do "some" tanking, they will be outperformed by every pure class out there.

    However, The Holy Trinity of MMO design is a much debated theme, and a quick google search will bring up some interesting discussions about it. I just dont believe reinventing the wheel at this point is a good idea for world of warcraft. Look at alternatives for that.

  8. #28
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    My arcane mage wants a 'healer' hero class that heals mana instead of health. That would add an interesting dynamic to raid replenishment.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by lubz View Post
    One possible explanation for their lack of popularity is that it is extremely hard to quantify their success in a group environment. With a tank you can ask if any group members die from unwanted aggro - if yes, the tank succeeded. With the healer you can ask if the tank/group stayed alive through the stuff they are supposed to live through - if yes, the healer succeeded. For dps it's even easier, just take a look at the meters. For support classes, however, it gets alot harder. Their very presence is supposed to be their contribution, and that can not be quantified in a meaningful way, and it does not lead to a rewarding gameplay. If allowed to do "some" dps as a secondary job, they will find themselves last on every meter, if allowed to do "some" tanking, they will be outperformed by every pure class out there.
    Hmm.... Good point, it'd be like trying to 'measure' a disc priest in a raid. Maybe the damage increase to the group is reported as the DPS of the support class, maybe adding in HPS? This would give them a 'measureable' of their contribution to the group, though it is dependent on their compatriarts. A great support toon would look poor with poor players and visa versa.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinytankz View Post
    I would like to get 2 healing trees with one DPS tree and balance all of it around current style itemization for holy plate (with the whole mastery thing coming into play as well).
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinytankz View Post
    Also i dont want this class to melee AT ALL that is already to crowded in the plate department.
    If this class has no melee use, regardless of spec, why would it wear plate? When I first started reading it seemed like an interesting idea until the idea that's it's pure range. Now this just seems like a way to ensure all classes/specs have competition when rolling on gear.

  11. #31
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    Tbh, if we're getting a new class, I'ld love to see a Leather or Mail class (least of those atm) which can tank, heal and do ranged caster DPS as it's 3 major trees. Sort of like an Illidan Demon Hunter wonnabe, but without accidently setting party members on fire instead of healing them. I would say the mail would fit best, mostly because we already have a tank wearing leather.
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  12. #32
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    I like the idea of a Monk class wearing SP Plate. I think it would be interesting to see a caster based class that is required to be in melee range. . . The Monk could have powerful burst casts only effective in melee range, and are very mana costly, and gain mana by bare knuckle beating enemy mobs. As such, they would be very bursty by nature, and empty their mana bars quickly, resorting to a back and forth swap between spell casting and melee hits to maximize dps.

  13. #33
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    I'm going to pretend I didn't just see a suggestion for a leather wearing class that can tank, heal, and be caster dps...
    A shaman tank though? I don't know. Nothing really hero about it.

    I just think about all they added for DK's. Remember the original concept? A dual wielding, plate wearing tank that doesn't use a shield? Or can go dps with either a perma pet or insane self healing abilities, with actual healing spells? Or how about a new resource system or their own version of weapon enchants? While I'm not a big fan of DK's, the idea of it is quite amazing.

    Can't just take an existing class, add an ability and call it a hero class. If Blizzard essentially were to take a shaman, create mail tank gear and change a tree doesn't make it a "hero" class. Nor does the originial idea of what is really just a plate wearing priest.

    Quote Originally Posted by icantfindone View Post
    I like the idea of a Monk class wearing SP Plate. I think it would be interesting to see a caster based class that is required to be in melee range. . . The Monk could have powerful burst casts only effective in melee range, and are very mana costly, and gain mana by bare knuckle beating enemy mobs. As such, they would be very bursty by nature, and empty their mana bars quickly, resorting to a back and forth swap between spell casting and melee hits to maximize dps.
    That's an interesting thought though...

  14. #34
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    I like the idea of a Monk class wearing SP Plate. I think it would be interesting to see a caster based class that is required to be in melee range. . . The Monk could have powerful burst casts only effective in melee range, and are very mana costly, and gain mana by bare knuckle beating enemy mobs. As such, they would be very bursty by nature, and empty their mana bars quickly, resorting to a back and forth swap between spell casting and melee hits to maximize dps.
    So you're talking about a rogue in plate?

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griff View Post
    So you're talking about a rogue in plate?
    No, No, that's Fury in Cata with SMF.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  16. #36
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    A New Hero class, just a thought

    Give me a bard type class that provides bonuses to his group in range and I will drop my War!

  17. #37
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    I don't think another class is needed, in this game. We already have two more races coming. If anything, they should merge the Blood elves and Night elves, and make a better looking race, from that. Alliance, of course! Make them Wood Elves, with smaller ears than the NEs, and still good looks, but not quite so "cheerleader" pretty as the Blood elves.

    Actually, I like the idea of merging two races, by choice, at a certain level, as an option. A little more diversity in the way characters look couldn't hurt. And, while they're at it, more armor/weapon choices, too. Not in stats, but in looks. Why is it that, while leveling, one can sort of make their own "look" with gear, but once at top level, only tier looks? Ugh, so tired of carrying the same axe, for the last six months, for instance! I'd rather have a sword, once in a while, ya know? Why is it that warriors can wear any armor, when basically plate, with maybe some leather is all they can really wear, without being scorned? Or, use any weapon, if they can't really, without hobbling themselves? There was that time I used a dagger to tank, in a five-man heroic...just to show that rogue I could, but , well, I digress!
    -"Just like a buzzin' fly, I come into your life, I'll float away, like honey in the sun..."--Tim Buckley

  18. #38
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    It'd be easy enough to solve the "tanking" and "healing" shortage by letting other classes tank or heal, that way they could easily main spec dps for raids (where we need less healers/tanks) and off spec as a tank/healer. For example a mage could polymorph himself into a golem and tank that way or something. There's lots of potential for the pure dps classes to make one tree into a support or healing/tanking tree, just add some good crowd control and buffs in and take away some of the damage from the tree, so a tree might do 30% less damage but be able to crowd control much better. That would give dual spec some purpose for dps classes.

  19. #39
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    A New Hero class, just a thought

    I think they should let us start any class at 55 once we have a max level toon.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synestar View Post
    I think they should let us start any class at 55 once we have a max level toon.
    I agree, though supposedly the 1-55 experience is completely new and much improved, not to mention they keep making it easier to level (lower mount lvls, increased xp etc) since most low levels are alts. I don't think they need to change 1-55 as much as 60-80 since it takes twice as long to get those last few levels and for the most part you know how to play your class by then with the exception of the new toys you pick up at 80 (and you already have your main tree's capstone talents since 60)

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