So, before I get started... this isn't an end-of-the-world importance kind of thread, so I won't be offended at all if most people just check out right now, rather than read the wall of text that will follow. I don't have any one specific question, and this might not even be the right place for this, so I'd even survive the post being deleted, haha.
Anywho, here goes. Obviously this is my first post here on TS. I've actually been lingering and reading stuff on the forums for a while, but alas have finally just worked up the courage to create an account and make a post. Unfortunately, to fully understand my predicament, my WoW back-story is necessary.
I started playing wow back a few months after it came out, before the first expansion. I was a City of Heroes player, but the Fantasy genre appealed to me, so I gave it a go. I got my first character to level 20 something, and then got bored of the game... because unlike in CoH, there weren't a ton of people jammed into like 5 servers, so there was no one around to really play with... and I didn't have any friends who played, so it was more like playing a console Single player RPG than an MMO for me, and I like MMOs for the human interaction more than the storyline, etc. So I dropped it. Then, about a year and a half ago, I had a friend talk me into signing back up. I got my Druid, the one I had managed to get into the 20s, all the way up to 50. Ultimately, she was flakey and once again, I was on my own and got bored... and they didn't have the Dungeon Finder system set up how it is now, so that wasn't helping either.
So anyway, once again I let it go. Skip ahead in time to 3 weeks ago. I got the itch, so I signed back up... got my account transfered to the new battle.net system, and found new life and love for WoW. The Dungeon Finder has been a blessing for me. Suddenly the game is an MMO for me. I'm playing with people and questing between to level. I've put the Druid on the shelf for a bit, and started playing a Death Knight... so I've spent a lot of time leveling the professions for him as well. I've also found a new love for economics, buying and selling on the AH. Basically no part of the game bores me at all.
So here is my predicament. I want to Raid. I want to be a member of a guild. My DK is only 73 (74 tonight) and it'll be another week or two before I ding 80... but I'm worried now, because in terms of GearScore I always find that I'm generally one of the lowest in the group when running 5 mans. I queue as DPS, mostly out of performance anxiety, because the first time I tried to tank with my Druid, everyone quit because I couldn't hold aggro. I'm a noob in a lot of ways, so I don't know how these things work, but it seems like the good gear, the gear that every Guild seems to demand I have before I can join, is gained through running Raids... and you can't exactly run a raid without already having good gear. So I guess the main question is... will there be a way to obtain good gear without already being in a Raiding Guild? Is it possible? If so, how? I suck at PVP, so I'm feeling like that's out of the question. Is there anything I can be doing now, at 73, to improve my chances of getting good gear at 80? Or do I pretty much have to wait?
Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Once you hit 80, you can spend a week constantly queueing random heroics and farm Emblems of Triumph. With the emblems of triumph you can get your gear up to speed well enough for 10 man ICC if not 25 man ICC. Don't worry about your gear right now because it's a whole new world at 80 and the path to gearing to raid readiness is time consuming, but simple and you'll be able to do it without raid.
OK you are using the dungeon finder tool which is great. after reaching level 68 you could start doing random Lich king dungeons. The first random you do for the day gives you 2 emblems of triumph these are good to get because at 80 you can exchange these for tier 9 232 or 245 gear. After you reach 80 you will recieve more of them emblems for running randoms as well as killing heroic dungeon bosses. Once you reach 80 your first random heroic dungeon will give you 2 emblems of frost which you can use to purchase tier 10 gear 264 gear. also make sure your checking all the plate gear that drops from these dungeons most will be better than what you get from quest rewards.
In regards to heroics... how do you unlock them? All of the Burning Crusade ones are locked to me, so I'm assuming the WotLK ones will be too?
Edit: Btw, thanks for the quick and helpful replies!
BC are unlocked by getting honored w/ the appropriate faction, and purchasing the key from their quartermaster.Originally Posted by Laose
WotLK Heroics are not unlocked. You don't even *need* to do the normal to do the heroic. You just need the gear. Which is like a 187?ish avg iLvl.
This sounds very familiar. When I started WoW about 2 years ago, just before WoLK came out, I had no clue what it was. I just leveled and didn't really understand the whole MMO thing or raiding or anything; in fact I just quested my DK to 80. However, once I hit 80, decided that tanking was what I wanted to do and began running 5 man heroics everything changed.
So, first decide what you want your role to be - tank, dps, heals; then focus on that. Also, as pointed out above gear means crap in pre-80 5 mans and even in most 80 5 mans and heroics. Since leveling my DK and my hunter; I've leveled a pally and a mage and used BoA's for them, until I either made or bought a replacement piece or got a drop. If it's a tank you want to be, remember a couple of things; you need a thick skin since you'll get lots of blame for mishaps and the game is filled with nerd douche bags; tank anything you can to learn how to do it. Since at some point you'll probably want to try something different, pick up all the off spec gear you can - if you want something in a 5 man dungeon don't hesitate to need on it. It's a five man, really, who cares.
Once you get comfortable at tanking, if that's what you choose, PuG smaller raids - VoA, OS, the easier weeklies. Then just PuG everything you can, you'll eventually run into the same people and it will grow from there; you'll probably PuG a partial guild run, and if you do well you'll get a invite or at least give them a name to think of for filling spots in future runs.
With emblems, crafting the the newer 5 man heroics you'll gear up in no time.
I'm just going to start by assuming you know very little and go from there. My apologies if you already know some of this.
Just to be clear: to do WotLK heroics, all you need is to be level 80. Some of the heroics will be locked to you until you get better gear.
You can get some really decent gear with emblems of triumph and emblems of frost.
* You get 2 triumphs when you complete your first normal-mode random dungeon daily.
* You get 2 frosts (at lvl 80) when you complete your first heroic-mode random dungeon daily, and 2 triumphs per random thereafter.
* Heroic bosses also drop 1 triumph badge each.
* Some of the latest 5-man dungeons, the ones that require better gear to unlock, will also drop 1 triumph badge per boss even on normal mode. These newer dungeons also drop higher quality loot:
1) Trial of the champion drops ilvl 200 epics (tier7 equivalent) on normal mode, ilvl 219 (tier 8 equiv) on heroic mode.
2) The Icecrown 5-mans (Forge of Souls, Pit of Sauron, Halls of Reflection) drop ilvl 219 epics (tier8) on normal mode and ilvl 232 epics (tier 9) on heroic.
* There is a quest line you need to do to access the ICC 5-mans. These quests are completed by doing the dungeons in order (as listed above) and by making sure you pick up each follow-up quest inside the dungeons. This quest line can be done on normal or heroic mode.
You can use the emblems of triumph to buy tier 9 set items (they give you a set bonus) and some offset pieces, you can get tier 10 set items and some offset pieces with frost emblems. Dont accidentally get PvP gear with your emblems. If the gear you're looking at has resilience on it, it is PvP gear. Only get that stuff if you want to PvP. The plate armor vendors in dalaran sell your PvE (raiding) gear.
Another note: gear with defense rating, parry, dodge, etc. is tanking gear.
If you have lots of gold, you can buy bind-on-equip items that drop in raids and crafted items in the auction house. Some of that stuff is better than badge gear.
Once you have a lot of badge gear, it usually isn't hard to find a guild that raids. Some guilds are looking for guys that already raid and have really good gear, some are just looking for folks who are more entry-level.
^
GS is not as important if you join a guild. Let them know you're A) New and B) willing to work your but off running heroics to get the best farmable/emblem gear you can get. If you do that, you should be good to go for entry level ICC.
Are you planning on tanking or DPSing?
An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer
I would suggest you tank once you hit lvl 80, so make sure you are needing all tanking gear that drops from your instances. I say be a tank first because the waiting time to get into an dungion is normally less then a min where as with dps most times around 20mins +. As a fresh tank keep a few things in mind ...
* because your gear will suck ppl may drop from your group or say nasty things ... ignore em, every1 starts with "crap" gear.
* Defence needs 2 be 540, i know that is not what you need for heroics ... just stick 2 540.
* read up on your DK tanking guide and practise on a dummy then on a few reg dungions first. HoL reg has a really good trinket with a lot of defence on it. i ran that place like 15 - 20 times for that trinket ... i was a pro at tanking after that and i hate hol now with a passion!
Healers and Tanks always gear up first over dps ... just somethiing 2 keep in mind.
just my 2 cents
I would suggest that if you want to tank you emblem farm your gear as a tank.
Firstly, because you need the experience of tanking because it's more important than the gear.
Secondly, the queues for a tank are almost instant so you will spend much less time waiting around for them. Don't worry about what the other people in the random think. You'll probably never see them again. You're there to practice and get gear. You're not running your one random heroic that you completely outgear for the 2 Frosties.
Also by running as the tank you have less chance of losing a tank drop to another. It's a jerk move to roll on tank gear if you're dps and the one who is tanking needs the tank gear, remember that. It doesn't matter what your "main spec" is, people get defensive over their loot.
You guys are awesome. I appreciate all the information, it's a total help. It's good to know that I'm already helping myself by doing my Daily Randoms and picking up 2 Triumph Badges every day too. Seeing that there is an achievable light at the end of the tunnel for me at 80 is a great boost for me, because I've been worrying about it. I don't know if it's just the Tichondrius Server, but I've met a ton of WoW Snobs over the past few weeks, and It's had me really worried that I'd never be able to do any of the Raid content. I've stopped mentioning the term Noob in passing conversations with people in groups, because people will quit based on the word alone, lol. It's crazy. I mean, I get it. People don't want to waste their time... but still.
I consider myself a noober, but I make up for it in grit and determination. The only time I drop below top 2 in DPS is when my teammates are higher levels than me, and better geared. And even then, I'm often still 1 or 2. Last night was a perfect example. My DPS was 1050, but I was at the top of the Recount chart with over 100k more dmg than the next guy... but the bottom two in total dmg, a hunter and a Boomkin, were both doing 1250 DPS. They both started the instance from the beginning. And the worst part, is that I was running my Blood spec, which deals about 15% less DPS than my Unholy Spec. I run the blood, because I've found that it ups my survivability a lot in Dungeons I'm not familiar with, and I've got Glyph of Rune Tap and Mark of Blood to help heal on bosses, and when tanks decide to pull big groups. Funny enough, I've definitely popped Rune Tap and kept a tank from dying on a few occasions.
As far as tanking goes... I think anyone who has run a DK (Or, I'm assuming a Fury Warrior) knows that it's hard to find Plate Armor not designed for tanking or Pallies. So I've done some light tanking in situations where tanks have dropped out of groups. I tried a Frost spec, which seemed to do great on threat and AOEs... but didn't care much for it. I've enjoyed Tanking with the blood spec more, simply because it makes me feel more secure with all the heal bonuses. I've been DPSing along, mostly to avoid responsibility, and because I've enjoyed the extra time during long queues to level my professions and to do some questing... but I've figured all along that once I hit 80, I'd probably run a tank spec. The reality is, the biggest reason I don't tank, is the fear of letting people down. I realize that it's pretty retarded to get that worked up over a game, but whatever, haha, it is what it is. And really, the only flaw to my tanking that I've seen so far, is getting into the mode of positioning the mobs and bosses in a way to minimize damage to the rest of the group. I'm pretty good at snagging anything I lose threat on with my taunt, or DG.
I dunno, it's definitely a mental hurdle, but I'm sure I'll get there. Once again, thanks so much for the advice, and keep it comin! haha. I'm definitely a sponge.
They're everywhere, and they are often wrong. Or to be more precise, they are overstating requirements. There are specific minimums you need to reach, and exceeding those minimums is never bad, but what people percieve as being the minimum tends to drift into unreasonable ranges as people get more and more gear.
People will get upset if they get a random tank for one of the original wotlk heroics that "only has 30k health". Back in the day when Wrath was new, it was commonplace to see tanks with only about 25k health successfully completing heroics.
There's also raids other than ICC, which range from requiring practically no gear at all (relatively speaking) to really good gear. It's possible to leapfrog, gear-wise, to be able to get into the latest raid (ICC), but there are some guilds that still do lower-tier content, too, either for fun or because they are in the same boat you're in.
Shop around.
I'll make a bold statement here that "we've all gone through this." Just takes time and confidence. Heck, I've tanked for 2 years, have Kingslayer on my DK and am 6/12 ICC 10 Heroic on my Pally (he doesn't have Kingslayer...yet) and I'm leveling a Warrior tank and was nervous tanking Razorfen Kraul on him the other night. Was my first time tanking on a Warrior.....and I liked it.
Come back often for advice, most people here are very nice, just watch out for the numbers people, they're so percise.
1. Read Satori's DK tanking guide if you haven't!
2. Think about putting a post on your realm forum that states your situation, your objectives and the fact that you're looking for a guild. Be a little choosy and hold out til you find a guild that feels like good fit, socially for you. The best way for you to get experience tanking is by playing with a group of regular players and finding the right guild will go a long way to this objective. That will cut down on your performance anxiety and give you a chance to get comfortable in the role.
3. Scare up a little gold and acquire some of the blue quality crafted tanking gear..it's usually less than 100g per piece and is a great starter set.
4. Develop a thick skin. It's only a game. Tanks, and healers usually bear the brunt of finger pointing when a pull goes bad, if they deserve the blame or not. In a week though, no one will even remember. That being said, make sure to evaluate criticism to see if there is anything valid there.
5. Don't sweat gear score while you're leveling. It's a pretty dumb metric to begin with and as a leveling character, it's not worth giving any thought to. Always be on the lookout for an upgrade as you level, but its rarely worth spending money on gear (except for the tanking set I mentioned above).
6. Please don't zombie Griff
What server are you on anyways?
A tip if you want to tank at 80: Make a macro to post in trade chat, something like "Starting tank LF patient DPS/Heals for random heroics!"
This accomplishes several things:
- People are grateful for the quick queue, rather than impatient because of the long wait. The DPS queue at 80 can, on my server, last anywhere from 5 to 20 minutes. The queue is pretty much instant if you have a tank in your group.
- People don't feel cheated for getting a tank who's still learning - they know what they're getting into, and that they may need to hold back on threat.
- GearScore snobs are much, much less likely to join. "Starting tank" and "patient DPS" are red flags to a GearScore lover.
- You get to play with other people from your server, meaning you can use it as a way to make friends and potentially find a guild. Good way to network.
Just make sure that you're at or above 535 defense, and have read a guide on how to tank with a Death Knight so you're not a COMPLETE noober :-P
Ehh, I dunno about the realm forum thing. Mine is full of trolls who would rip you to shreds to being a "casualol". If you have a stomach for insults go for it though.Think about putting a post on your realm forum that states your situation, your objectives and the fact that you're looking for a guild. Be a little choosy and hold out til you find a guild that feels like good fit, socially for you. The best way for you to get experience tanking is by playing with a group of regular players and finding the right guild will go a long way to this objective. That will cut down on your performance anxiety and give you a chance to get comfortable in the role.
Level 74 is a good time to start tanking instances (Although, IMO, Outland instances will give you a much better lesson on the importance of proper pulls). Trash mobs don't hit as hard so you can get away with tanking in dps gears, you don't get over-geared dps pulling threat and hey, its pretty good xp.
Once again, guys, thanks for the awesome suggestions. Every single reply here has been helpful for me. I've definitely decided I'm going home today and making a tank spec. Satorri's guide was a great suggestion, been reading it for like 2 hours while I'm at work. The macro idea is gold, and I'm angry at myself for not thinking of it. If they know what they're getting into, they are less likely to bitch, and I don't have to feel bad if they do.
To Griff, I'm on Tichondrius. I guess i've read that a lot of big guilds operate on Tichondrius, i dunno. I've got a couple low Horde alts on Frostwolf too, but I haven't played those guys for over a year. No offense to anyone here, but man... I don't care for Horde players. haha. I get ganked ALL the time, and it sucks because if I see a lowbie Horde, I NEVER do any ganking, because I know how frustrating it is... but man, any opportunity they get, the Horde ganks me. AHH! haha. So I don't feel comfortable playing Horde just based on a constant level of irritation that I feel for all of them.
Question... Do people really dislike "Raise Ally?" I've tried it mid-fight on a couple of occasions, and no one ever accepts the rez. What's the deal?
I think many people are unfamiliar with the ghoul's controls. It also interferes with resurrection/combat resurrection while it lasts.
It isn't bad, but I think people look at it the same way as a priest's lightwell. A neat idea but a little useless (just sayin what a lot of people think, not what is necessarily true).
I am really happy I caught this thread. Not because I needed the info but because this This must be the most helpful and informative thread Ive read in a good while. Thank you all tankspot users!
Now, Im writing on my phone so going to be short...
What I cant find anything about in this thread is addons. If you are taking up the responsabilety of tanking there are a few addons I consider a must (my personal preferances mind you):
Omen threat meter. Shows the threat of the targeted mob.
Deadly Boss Mods, shows special boss powers with timers etc.
Tidy Plates, shows who you have aggro from on the mobs health bar. Handy when tanking multi mobs so you know wich to taunt.
Could be your all familiar with these addons. But you never know..
I use Dominos, Pit Bull 4.0 (in 10 mans, since I can't get it to show up consistently in 25s), Recount, DBM, Omen and MiK Scrolling Battle Text.
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