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Thread: Gearing for EHP or Avoidance

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    How many times do you need threat gen after the first 10 seconds? I'm also pretty sure that's not from my guide, that's from the outdated one.
    I never battle with death tanking the current content. ( between cds, healers, exct) i do battle with threat pretty often. but thats just me


    Is the post outdated??? id like to know if it is

  2. #42
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    the WotLK Prot warrior guide hasn't been updated for a long time. Mine in the gearing and enchanting section is up to date (link in sig). Some of the stuff in that thread is still valid, but not all of it.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  3. #43
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    Okay, I'd like to add a few things: Phindo didn't have to get pure avoidance, but find a balance. Currently, even our disc priests are complaining that he's hard to keep up.

    I'd also like to add that currently Phindo has problems with aggro generation.

    All in all, its all nice that you make him stack health only, but its kind of useless when he gets hit like a mad truck and hits like a plastic toy.

  4. #44
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    I heard someone was looking for this: http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...t-for-3.3.3%29
    The facts about Expertise and Hit in the current game.

    Look its not that Expertise and Hit do not increase your threat, they do. However they do so on a much smaller scale than people realize.

    How all tanks generate threat (Listed from the highest source to the lowest):
    1) Using your abilities properly. This is paramount, nothing increase your threat more than this.
    2) Spec and Glyphs.
    3) Proper use of external abilities such as TotT and MD.
    4) 26 Expertise Skill.
    5) Hit rating.

    So I should just mindlessly stack stamina?
    Stacking stamina is not mindless unless you do not understand why you should be doing it. Tanks that do not min/max their survival by stacking stamina (or armor where available) through gems and enchants are only doing their raid a disservice. There have been numerous reports from highly respected community members here on tankspot, in world ranked guilds that tanked Heroic ToGC 25 with as little as 40 hit rating and are now also in Heroic ICC 25 with as little as 16 expertise rating. These tanks are working with DPS that are pulling 10k+ on most fights and doing just fine without reaching the hit cap or the expertise soft cap.

    If a tank is having threat issues no amount of expertise or hit is going to correct that, see #1 & 2.
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

  5. #45
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    How well does he know his rotation?

    Does he use his tanking cooldowns at the right moments?

    Execution matters as well. The "lost" avoidance from not gemming for it isn't very high. That's not what's killing him.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolvenheart View Post
    Okay, I'd like to add a few things: Phindo didn't have to get pure avoidance, but find a balance. Currently, even our disc priests are complaining that he's hard to keep up.

    I'd also like to add that currently Phindo has problems with aggro generation.

    All in all, its all nice that you make him stack health only, but its kind of useless when he gets hit like a mad truck and hits like a plastic toy.
    What fights we're talking about? His gear is not that bad, he shouldn't be hard to keep up. I would suggest Phindo to get Pillars of the Might and some ring with armor (like Clutch of Fortification or Loop from ToGC10). On heavy physical fights, he should use that ring instead of Juggermaut Band. Other easy upgrades are 245lvl crafted bracers and 264 crafted boots. Enchants and gems look good now.

    Again, he won't be easier to keep up by trying to balance avoidance with EHP. Pure HP and HP/Armor sets are the way to go in ICC.

    And maybe I don't have that big experience in healing, but after raiding as Disc Priest I can tell that we're for raid healing, not tank healing. Ask Paladin / Drood or Shammy if Phindo is hard to keep up.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolvenheart View Post
    Okay, I'd like to add a few things: Phindo didn't have to get pure avoidance, but find a balance. Currently, even our disc priests are complaining that he's hard to keep up.

    I'd also like to add that currently Phindo has problems with aggro generation.

    All in all, its all nice that you make him stack health only, but its kind of useless when he gets hit like a mad truck and hits like a plastic toy.
    Some thoughts: It sounds as though you have discipline priests on tank-healing? That may be a big part of a problem -- discipline has about the worst single target throughput of any healer. Discipline do make awesome and powerful raid healers, but if you use them for tank healing, that's much more likely the issue than any tank gear.

    A common survivability issue with warrior tanks is that they do not use Demoralizing Shout (or let it drop off) when there's nobody else providing an attack power debuff, but that should not be persistent (since in most fights, both tanks are on the same mob).

    It's really hard to tell without a log what the issue is, though. It can be a number of things, and his gear looks mostly fine.

    Aggro generation is most likely a technique issue; a common problem that many warrior tanks have is that they do not use Heroic Strike enough, but there are other potential rotation issues, too. Again, it's hard to tell without a log. However, I don't see anything in his stats that may cause threat issues: hit and expertise in particular are in good shape.

  8. #48
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    Three things i would like to point out

    #1 Go farm the Normal HoR shield it's worth your time, and after you spend the time grinding it a better shield will drop to make all your efforts in vain. (8 non-consecutive hours farming it for me, an hour after it dropped i went into ToC25 and that shield dropped)

    #2 1 Festergut kills (Heroic Icecrown 10 player). If your tanking H-Fester now is it safe to assume that being squishy has been solved?

    #3 satrina's or Glyph of indomitably is an upgrade from the CTC
    US|Thrall|Horde Yea, I Love Plate
    Ike(Fury Warrior) Oit(Dk Tank) Oiz(Holy Pally)

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolvenheart View Post
    Okay, I'd like to add a few things: Phindo didn't have to get pure avoidance, but find a balance. Currently, even our disc priests are complaining that he's hard to keep up.

    I'd also like to add that currently Phindo has problems with aggro generation.

    All in all, its all nice that you make him stack health only, but its kind of useless when he gets hit like a mad truck and hits like a plastic toy.
    I heal on my pally and a tank geared like he is, is no problem to keep up in ICC 10 - 25 or H ICC 10. If you're healers can't keep him up it's really a healer issue not a tank issue.

  10. #50
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    Id like to add a few comments, 1: when he said about my threat generation being bad, it isnt at all, its quite decent and i can keep agrro on the bosses we do, its ovious im not gona keep all the agrro on the trash mobs because for a start im not an AoE tank and secondly we have like people around 6k gs and im like 5.5k. 2: i do know how to use my tanking rotation properly 3: lighsliver this is at you, i wasnt told by xtremos to balance my avoidance and EHP, he told me to go alomst full avoidance and a tiny bit of stam. 4: ill admit i dont ALWAYS keep up demorolizing shout i do have it up on some fights but not ALL the time, but that shouldnt make it so that the healers are complaining about my hp. 5:i dont know if there is a "set" way to use my CD's but i believe that i do use them pretty decently sometimes (on a scale of 1-10 on how good i use em id say about 5/10 maybe 6/10)

    Also id like to ask you lot to check out my armoury again and tell me if i would be suitable to tank LK 10 normal? http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...lade&cn=Phindo

  11. #51
    You're plenty geared for LK 10. A little overgeared, probably.

    For reference, our LK 10 kill was tanked by a pug druid tank in cat gear/trinkets and ArP gems.

  12. #52
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    Your shield and bracers are the most glaring issues and the fact you have no enchant on your weapon.

    Check out heroic ToC 10 man. Good bracers off Beasts and nice shield off Anub. Also some decent boots from Valks. Go with Blood Draining on the enchant.

    Overall not bad tho for 10 man normal ICC.
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

  13. #53
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    kk ty

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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by santoro2984 View Post
    Until you have a full understanding of DM, just trust in the advice of the pros here on tankspot when we say never stack parry.
    There is no chance that I would ever do that. In my experience, the only people who say "trust me" are the least deserving of it. The people who are worthy of it never ask for it, with words or by implication.

    They don't need to.

    Carry on.

  16. #56
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    Xtremos' gemming is bad, and spec even worse. I wouldn't even let him in my group to find out how it is to heal him.

    Edit: Upon further inspection, even his arms spec is terribad. He clearly doesn't understand his class at all.
    Last edited by icantfindone; 09-25-2010 at 04:10 PM.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by icantfindone View Post
    ...
    Comments are bad, English is worse. Upon detecting his attitude, I would remove him from the raid.

  18. #58
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    I'm sorry Jammer. . . am I missing something? Are you Xtremos?

    I guess I will expand on the gemming and spec.
    1) Diminishing returns on parry are much harsher then dodge, meaning that point for point, dodge gives you more avoidance than parry at almost all but the most extreme cases.
    2) Xtremos put purple gems in sockets that aren't red, and solid blue gems in sockets that are red. If they were swapped them, you can obtain the socket bonus resulting in more EHP, like the red socket in the boots and shoulders. However, the off-color gems in the legs, gloves, chest and the prismatic socket in the belt don't afford you any bonus.
    3) In the protection spec, Cruelty is taken 5/5 points, but ATtT and Incite is ignored. Both ATtT and Incite provide more TPS to a warrior then Cruelty per point. Impale and Deep Wounds also offer more TPS per point than Cruelty. Improved Spell Reflection and Improved Disarm are useless on all ICC bosses.
    4) In the arms spec, weapon specialization is skipped, but 5/5 Deflection is taken, 2/3 Blood Craze and 1/2 Second Wind are taken. Those are Tanking/Pvp talents that are useless in raiding. Also not really ideal for PVP as Blood Craze and Second Wind would both be maxxed, ignoring Improved Execute, and going for Piercing Howl instead. Glyph of Overpower is bad. You should be getting Overpower often just by keeping rend up, and in raids, you should be attacking from behind anyways, so GoO is useless (since bosses cant parry attacks from the rear, only dodge).
    5) It seems that you do indeed use your arms spec for PVP, and have gemmed for armor pen in your PvP gear. If you placed 5 points in Mace Specialization (since you have Oxheart) it would give you another 15% armor pen, stacking with 10% from battle stance, to give you a total of 55.5% armor pen in your PvP gear, so you would be very close to soft cap with NES. Just a thought.

    These are just simple observations from armory + character sheet. Jammer, if you are indeed Xtremos, take some of this advice and do a little bit of research before you lash out at people looking for help, or offering help. If you aren't the same person, then I dont understand the point of your previous 2 posts.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post
    There is no chance that I would ever do that. In my experience, the only people who say "trust me" are the least deserving of it. The people who are worthy of it never ask for it, with words or by implication.

    They don't need to.

    Carry on.
    In that case...

    Never stack parry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal
    ...there is no true progression for a casual anymore, just hand outs.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by icantfindone View Post
    Xtremos' gemming is bad, and spec even worse. I wouldn't even let him in my group to find out how it is to heal him.

    Edit: Upon further inspection, even his arms spec is terribad. He clearly doesn't understand his class at all.
    a Single Parry gem would bring up questions of why, Five Parry gems + the Horrible onyixa Trinket brings up questions of Really? To answer the Op's question, I would say he's going to be the easier to heal even before making the suggested changes.
    US|Thrall|Horde Yea, I Love Plate
    Ike(Fury Warrior) Oit(Dk Tank) Oiz(Holy Pally)

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