Originally Posted by
Loganisis
There was a thread about that a while ago. That if you start to approach what was it, 85% parry/avoid/block then increasing those numbers is better than EH gearing because you make the chance of a bad streak almost irrelevent? IIRC the point?
But as you said, with the ICC debuff, you're no where near the point where bad streaks are nearly removable.
Are they still planning to impliment Raid Boss Expertise in Cata that would all but make it a no-go there too?
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@Santoro
The trade offs for improving threat, or at least the best ones, have very little direct impact on EH. Devestate + Blocking glyps, maybe even cleave for trash packs cost you CD usage but don't directly impact EH. Of course glyphs are around for you to help augment your production as you need.
Heck, if you don't have a LK tank wep drop, the H ICC 25 gunboat 1H 1.5 wep speed axe is a huge threat increase plus an EH increase as well (though you lose a chunk of avoidance).
Then there is also DPS having to pay more attention. Hunters MD, rogues ToT the tanks, Pallys with the threat reducer, 'Lock soulshatter.
All of those occur prior to adjusting gemming/enchants. So even in this spot, swapping gems would be lower on the priority list. Part of this is because, as the math has been proven (where is Draedor and his Siggy that had this all linked?) hit and Exp are the least valuable components of threat. Rotation, wep, glyphs, raid help (and one other I think, I can't recall) are all more effective ways of increasing threat.
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As for trading 15 stamina for avoidance, the returns on the avoidance you are getting are so small, you have to trade a lot of stamina, enough to make a very noticable impact, for any decent returns on avoidnace in ICC and even then, you're reaching the realm of 'on average' you'd get an extra dodge/parry/miss or 2 per boss fight at the cost of 1000s of HP.
For example, a warrior needs 80 dodge rating for a 1% dodge increase. Gemming, that's 120 sta *1.1 (kings) * 1.09 (warrior sta talent) = ~144 sta * 10 = 1440 sta * 1.3 (ICC buff) = 1872 HP for 1% more dodge.
(120 stamina comes from the fact that 80 dodge is = 4 +20 dodge gems or 8 +10/+15 sta gems instead of +30 sta gems, for a total trade off of 120 stamina)
Take a 1.5 sec swing timer, a 10 minute enrage, and the boss is going to swing at the tank a maximum of 400 times in a full 10 minute fight. Less if tank swaps go on or emotes, or the boss dies earlier. So on *average* you're looking 1 extra missed attack ever 2.5 minutes (again, average, even less becasue dodge is subjected to diminishing returns) for 1872 * DR (my case, about 71%) so that's 6455 EH.
Giving up at least 6455 EH for an avoid that occurs roughly every 2.5 minutes due to the increased dodge (because it's RNG so in any given fight it could happen a whole lot more or even not at all) or if does happen may happen when I really don't need it (at full health or at 70% a moment before a pally heal comes in) isn't something I'd feel comfortable giving up.
And as your armor increases, the opportunity cost of each stamina point traded becomes higher because you start reaching the increasing returns at an increasing rate of the exponetial curve of armor's DR (since this is only a physical damage discussion as there's very little effect to magic attacks, the slight increase in chance to miss is pretty minor).
This is why Avoid in ICC is still sub-optimal. To obtain a big enough chunk of it that you can start to expect to usually occur during a fight you have to give up big chunks of EH. The returns just aren't there.
*caveat, I'm 95% sure my math is accurate, feel free to correct if you see a mistake*
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