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Thread: Gear, where to go from here?

  1. #1

    Gear, where to go from here?

    So based on my groups last few attempts on ICC10 HM, I am needing some more threat rather than survivability. One or two of the top dps in our group is having to hold back some.. we'd rather that not be the case.

    Soooo, I am PROBABLY going to get the T10 helm this week unless I can find a better "+threat" tanking upgrade. Any suggestions as to where to go with this?

    note: the +dodge trinket isnt the one im using. I will be using UO from putri.

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ers&cn=Logikal

    I am using the 969 rotation and I generally do 11-14k TPS, atleast, that what I saw on heroic fester last night. I can post a log of the run if that would help.
    Last edited by pinnacle2009; 08-13-2010 at 10:21 AM.

  2. #2
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    Post the following:

    1. armory link
    2. raid composition: you have rogues, hunters?
    3. Your average TPS as reported by Omen

  3. #3
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    4. The class you're playing.
    5. Your rotation.

  4. #4
    edited first post. Sorry, was really tired when I made the post lol

  5. #5
    and no rogues or hunters.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinnacle2009 View Post
    I generally do 11-14k TPS, atleast, that what I saw on heroic fester last night
    Bolded the iffy bit. Fester has sqewed threat due tothe mechanics.
    A better benchmark would be LK P1 on boss tanking, other candidates: Blood princess on boss tanking, saurfang, rotface, blood council-non keleseth.


    If you are puting out 9-11k TPS on those bosses, you are at about the upper limit on TPS, beyound this you need rogues/hunters to trix/misdirect you.
    Since you don't have rogues/hunters, your dps should think about investing into threat reducing talents or getting hands of salvations.

    Also you can think of switching the 18 stamina enchant from gloves into armsman enchant for +2% threat.

  7. #7
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    I'd saw review your rotation rather than your gear. Unless you are massively outgeared threat shouldnt be an issue except the start of fights. I play a DK myself so I can't say anything about paladins but I regularly raid with both a warrior and a paladin and our threat production are roughly the same and way higher than our dps (which are good btw).
    If we are talking about one or two dps getting too close to you it might also be a problem on their behalf?

    11-14k TPS is more than enough but Fester isnt a good boss to measure it on as the above poster said because of the debuff.

  8. #8
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-g654cdab1rmihoyg/

    That should be log I'm thinking of. I am Logikal by the way.

    edit:

    Here's one from a Ruby Sanctum

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-w1qwglkqgijpzpqd/

  9. #9
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    Blizzard expects either a rogue or a hunter to be present at all times, and you can't even vigilence. As mentioned before, unless you have that, your options are limited.

    But from what I can see, I'd agree with PatrikL, you aren't producing nearly enough DPS for your given setup. Also, consider using avenging wrath on the pull, it knocks out your Diving Prot for a few minutes, but it will help your threat, which is what you need more at the beginning. I think you can squeeze in a few in the fights.

    If it's a slow loss instead of snap aggro, you have at least 2 hand of salvations and a pain supression to work with, 2 of the 3 are in the hands of your healers who might not be GCD constrained at the start. You can pull right off the bat with wings and have both healers hand + PS the top 2 dps. I just can't see you having aggro issues if you do this.

  10. #10
    What should it be closer to? (DPS)

    I asked when I was first getting into ICC about the rotation and thought I had it. I'll look at it again. Hopefully I'll find the problem and be doing more threat lol

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insahnity View Post
    Blizzard expects either a rogue or a hunter to be present at all times, and you can't even vigilence. As mentioned before, unless you have that, your options are limited.

    But from what I can see, I'd agree with PatrikL, you aren't producing nearly enough DPS for your given setup. Also, consider using avenging wrath on the pull, it knocks out your Diving Prot for a few minutes, but it will help your threat, which is what you need more at the beginning. I think you can squeeze in a few in the fights.

    If it's a slow loss instead of snap aggro, you have at least 2 hand of salvations and a pain supression to work with, 2 of the 3 are in the hands of your healers who might not be GCD constrained at the start. You can pull right off the bat with wings and have both healers hand + PS the top 2 dps. I just can't see you having aggro issues if you do this.
    Wings has nothing to do with the Divine Protection/Shield debuff. Popping Wings the moment you get a 5-stack on the boss is a very good way to maximize your early threat. Popping it before this point will increase the initial threat from your Frisbee and stuff, but will in the end generate much less aggro (that 33% weapon damage adds up quickly).

    Also, PS is a really weak aggro reduction, only 5% - compared to the enormous defensive potential. I'd only use it as an aggro reducer on farm content or silly weak stuff like Rotface.

  12. #12
    Well I dont see anything wrong with my rotation. Any chance it could be my hit rating? 147 hit rating and 34 expertise (with glyph). I have 1769 strength and I have heard that 2,000 should be my goal?

    What should I look for that could determine why my dps is lower than it should be?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinnacle2009 View Post
    Well I dont see anything wrong with my rotation.
    Then I suggest you re-read the threads on the 969 rotation, because you're miles away from it. Why are you even wasting GCDs on Holy Wrath on a single target boss fight? On Marrowgar, you're only casting HotR every 9-11 seconds in most cases (one 7 second gap is your best). ShoR is similar. Even accounting for Marrowgar whirling all over the room, that's very poor.

    Baltharus the Warborn - HotR every 8-11 seconds, ShoR every 8-13 (?!) seconds.

    Halion (your final attempt) - HotR every 8-11 seconds, ShoR every 8-15 seconds. Sections like:

    [23:32:52.230] Logikal casts Hammer of the Righteous on Halion
    [23:32:58.588] Logikal casts Hammer of the Righteous on Halion
    [23:33:01.089] Logikal casts Judgement of Light on Halion
    [23:33:03.608] Logikal casts Shield of Righteousness on Halion
    [23:33:05.627] Logikal casts Hammer of the Righteous on Halion
    [23:33:08.079] Logikal casts Consecration
    [23:33:09.447] Logikal casts Holy Shield
    [23:33:10.935] Logikal casts Judgement of Light on Halion
    [23:33:12.451] Logikal casts Shield of Righteousness on Halion
    [23:33:15.854] Logikal casts Hammer of the Righteous on Halion

    Does that look like a tight, correct rotation?

    The problem is the same as pretty much everyone else who complains of threat issues: your threat stats are inconsequential, because you're doing your rotation incorrectly and inefficiently. Ignore threat stats, work on your rotation.

  14. #14
    The order is correct atleast isnt it?

    If so, I am really not sure how to get it any tighter. I am a clicker which may have something to do with it? I dunno. Guess I just need to read more and try to get out of the habit of clicking.

  15. #15
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    The order is incorrect. You should be doing 96969 - see how you're putting Shield of Righteousness and Hammer of the Righteous (your two 6-second abilities) back-to-back, that's a no-no.

    And yeah, clicking is going to be a problem.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinnacle2009 View Post
    The order is correct atleast isnt it?
    No.

    [23:32:52.230] Logikal casts Hammer of the Righteous on Halion 6
    [23:32:58.588] Logikal casts Hammer of the Righteous on Halion 6
    [23:33:01.089] Logikal casts Judgement of Light on Halion 9
    [23:33:03.608] Logikal casts Shield of Righteousness on Halion 6
    [23:33:05.627] Logikal casts Hammer of the Righteous on Halion 6
    [23:33:08.079] Logikal casts Consecration 9
    [23:33:09.447] Logikal casts Holy Shield 9
    [23:33:10.935] Logikal casts Judgement of Light on Halion 9
    [23:33:12.451] Logikal casts Shield of Righteousness on Halion 6
    [23:33:15.854] Logikal casts Hammer of the Righteous on Halion 6

    Summary: 6696699966

    You want 96969 indefinitely. Hence "the 969 rotation". It's not called that because the abilities have 6 and 9 second effective cooldowns; it's called that because that's the order you want to use them in. ShoR and HotR are 6s; Judgement, HS and Consecration are the 9s. Alternate those. Don't use Holy Wrath on single targets.

    Once you've got that sorted out (i.e. you're doing the rotation correctly), you work on doing it efficiently. Efficiency is using every GCD, and using the 6 second cooldowns as close as possible to every 6 seconds, i.e. minimising the gaps between abilities by pre-casting/hammering the button before it's up. Key bindings will help here.

  17. #17
    Hmmm I'll look at that. Not sure how I managed to mess it up that badly. SoR and HotR are't even next to each other on my action bars lol Guess I never had to pay attention until now. I've always held aggro up until I started raiding with that guild. Then 1-2 people started giving me problems. Now I know why.

    Thanks guys.

  18. #18
    Any tips on breaking the habit of being a clicker? lol

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinnacle2009 View Post
    Any tips on breaking the habit of being a clicker? lol
    There's really no way to stop except for binding your keys and diving in. Unfortunately there's no training wheels involved :-(

    I just set my 6 keys (HotR ShoR) to the R and F keys, and the 9 keys (Cons, HS, Judg) to 2 3 and 4. This keeps the two sets distinct in my mind, helps cut down on the random button mashing a bit. Your mileage may vary.

    I'm still working on keyboard turning, it's a habit I've been unable to break except for absolute life-or-death situations like Sindragosa or what-have-you.

  20. #20
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-re6gzz2yg85ho3yv/

    New log. This reflects me trying keybindings and mouse turning. I am not sure how to review my skill list so I am not sure if I used the right rotation again. I have them set up on my action bar correctly. Just not totally sure if I am doing it right yet..

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