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Thread: Tank - Low Expertise and Stamina

  1. #1
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    Tank - Low Expertise and Stamina

    Hi,

    First of all - my Armory: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ng&cn=Darkkman

    I've picked up my Warrior Tank after a wee break (where "wee" = "small", not related to urinary excretions )... Anyway, I have read all the forums/guides here on Tankspot and from what I understand I need 57 Expertise to take Dodge and Parry of the table (with 26 Expertise as the Soft Cap (Dodge ONLY)). I currently have 35 (I have gemmed and enchanted to get even that far) but I think this is leaving me somewhat short on Stamina - AND my DPS output seems very low... I know I know Tank is TPS but these days the DPS is so high I really struggle to keep threat with Taunt being used almost every CD on multiple mobs! :'(

    I know I'm currently missing some enchants and will shortly be upgrading the Shotgun to Blades of the Sable Cross.

    So, my question's are...

    1. Is the Expertise Soft Cap good enough (I play mostly Heroic 5-mans but would like to move into 10/25 Raid content)? Should I be pushing to reach Hard Cap when I can't get anywhere near with gems/gear and ench?
    2. What gear should I be looking to get (remember I currently only do 5-man HC).
    3. Are any of my gem/ench choices desperately wrong -

    If so it means I could gem and enchant more towards Stamina which would help... I think...

    So... HALP! I need advice!

    Thanks in advance

    ---
    Edit: Added armory link

  2. #2
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    50 expertise is wholly unnecessary. 26 is a nice goal but again not crucial. I always suggest going with whatever hit and expertise is on your gear, maybe use a couple purple gems but certainly not a red or orange one. So definitely replace your threat gems with more stam, and your bracer enchant with +40 stam.

    One thing that would help a lot with AoE threat is replacing your Sunder Armor glyph with Cleaving. Having Cleave hit a third target is amazing for 5-mans.

    Your spec and glyphs look good otherwise. Personally I prefer 2/5 Shield Spec and 3/3 Focused Rage unless you're into raiding (more rage = more Cleaves) but that's always personal preference.

    For other gear, just whatever other pieces you can grab from 5-mans, like RImefang's Claw or the reg HoR shield. If you have a bit of gold, consider the crafted bracers or better yet, crafted legs (bonus armor... mmm).

  3. #3
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    You're overgeared for every heroic in the game, with a possible exception of H HoR. That being said, you're going to want to replace your wrist enchant with +40 stamina. You might as well pretend 26 is the hard cap, and even then you don't want to shoot for it. It's going to be on your gear anyway, and it shouldn't make much of a difference. Gem for Stamina, unless the set bonus is a lot of stamina and you don't have to put in strange gems. Most generally all stam and one stam/dodge to activate the meta is preferred.

    You're also going to want to switch out your boots enchant for Tuskar's Vitality. There is a higher stam enchant you can get, but the run speed is typically preferred for intangible reasons.

    You're also well over hit cap, especially for heroics.

    As for threat generation, feel free to swap out a trinket or two for dps in heroics. Personally, I run heroics in full dps/pvp gear. As long as you keep yourself around 30k health and your healer isn't freshly 80 you really shouldn't have to worry about dying even if things get kind of dicey.

  4. #4
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    Hi guys,

    Thanks for your advice... I am very glad to hear that I don't really need to be worrying about capping expertise as it was eating up so much ench/gem space. I'll try out the 2/5 Shield Spec and 3/3 Focused Rage and Cleaving Glyph and see how it goes.

    I know I'm overgeared in terms of level of 5-man HC content however the issue is that generally ALL the dps that I get in groups are well over 5k, more likely +6k gs and if they know how to use that gear they pull threat off me at the drop of a hat and they will likely just AoE crazy as soon as I geat within spitting distance - so I feel that while I may outgear the instance, if I don't match the gear of my dps I'm gonna have threat issues - so I think I'm gonna try out the DPS trinkets I have for my Fury Spec... nice idea!

    So, re-ench and gem, little respec (and new glyph) and I'll see how it goes...

    Muchos Muchos Grazias!!!

  5. #5
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    Quick note: 2/5 ss 3/3 FR is only good for single target. If you are taking more than one thing than 5/5 SS quickly becomes better. FR just barely pulls ahead for single target though. It's a preference thing really. I prefer 3/3 FR 2/5 SS because I push my rage to the minimum and more frequently found myself single target tanking than multi target tanking.

    If you haven't already read it, you might check out the guide in my sig.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  6. #6
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    Big note -- dump the glyph of sunder, you are using glyph of devastate and should never be sundering anyway since Devastate does it for you.

  7. #7
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    Well glyph of sunder works off of devastate. But I do agree glyph of sunder is pretty terrible glyph atm.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    Well glyph of sunder works off of devastate. But I do agree glyph of sunder is pretty terrible glyph atm.
    Terrible glyph is terrible, no reason to give people ideas that it is any less terrible haha. I would take one of the various alternatives shockwave/cleave/shield wall/etc over it any day


    Completely off topic - Aggathon if your sig quote is comparing roles with school subjects it would think it should be:
    DPS - P.E. (all we ask is just don't p*ss on the floor)
    Healing - Art
    Tanking - Math
    lawl

  9. #9
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    hahahahaha
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelnut View Post
    Completely off topic - Aggathon if your sig quote is comparing roles with school subjects it would think it should be:
    DPS - P.E. (all we ask is just don't p*ss on the floor)
    Healing - Art
    Tanking - Math
    lawl
    Yeah, enrage timers don't exist.

    TBH if anything at this point in the expansion in order to be good dps you need math, to be a good healer you need to know which button you should spam forever (in fairness healing CAN be a bit challenging if you don't have a good team) and to be a good tank you simply need to press your cooldowns at the right time...you don't even need to know yourself, you can just have someone else tell you.

    Of the three roles right now, tanking is by far the least interactive and skillful. You get MD/Tricks and you don't even need to worry about threat.

  11. #11
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    DPS is math.
    Tanking is like Gym.

    Also, @ OP. you might want to enchant the rest of your gear while your at it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ion View Post
    Of the three roles right now, tanking is by far the least interactive and skillful. You get MD/Tricks and you don't even need to worry about threat.
    Bad tanks are bad, good tanks are good. You can get by with a bad tank if everyone else works twice as hard or you can have a good tank and substantially improve overall raid efficiency. If you play with both you notice a big difference between the two (threat generation, positioning, movement, mechanics handling, communication, cooldown usage, debuffs/stuns/intangibles)

    With that being said I am switching from Tank to Fury so I look forward to avoiding wet floors

    I would say all 3 are probably similar skill requirement, only difference is good vs bad tanks & heals are a lot more noticeable regarding kill vs wipe whereas good/bad DPS is nothing but position in the meters and not dying.

  13. #13
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    I almost responded to this with actual analysis, then I realized the gym thing is just a joke guys, chillax =P
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ion View Post
    Yeah, enrage timers don't exist.

    TBH if anything at this point in the expansion in order to be good dps you need math, to be a good healer you need to know which button you should spam forever (in fairness healing CAN be a bit challenging if you don't have a good team) and to be a good tank you simply need to press your cooldowns at the right time...you don't even need to know yourself, you can just have someone else tell you.

    Of the three roles right now, tanking is by far the least interactive and skillful. You get MD/Tricks and you don't even need to worry about threat.
    QQ. It's a joke, chill out dude.

  15. #15
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    Well, half a joke. Gym, or organized scholastic sports, require a bit of talent, some experience/practice and you need to know the rules of the game.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griff View Post
    Well, half a joke. Gym, or organized scholastic sports, require a bit of talent, some experience/practice and you need to know the rules of the game.
    I got an A in Gym by refusing to participate because baseball is stupid. Gym is hard :P.

  17. #17
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    *cough* I have to say I always feel like I've had a work out after a bit of tanking

    Well finished enchanting my gear and re-gemmed and swapped in the Cleave glyph and gave a few 5-man HCs a run and found the cleave glyph to help considerably when tanking multi-mobs (and have a nicer HP pool to play with). The loss of Expertise doesn't really seem to have impacted threat too much so glad about that.

    I ended up sticking with 5/5 SS as I figured my issue was with threat on multi-mobs so this is where I'd keep mitigation and don't have any major rage issues (maybe cos I don't get enough HS in on a single target - but working on that)...


    I also ran a few times with my dps trinkets (Banner of something and the PVP Titan thing) and this helped me not feel like I was beating the mobs with flannels while the only thing keeping their attention being the minor insults I'd throw at them... >.<

    So all's good... Will likely switch back to Tank trinkets for HoR HC but even PoS/FoS were fine with dps tinkets.

    If anyone would like to check out the current outfit and comment please be my guest and point out if i'm making any other glaring errors

    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ng&cn=Darkkman

    And feel free to continue the Tank/Heal/DPS/PE/Maths/Art debate... quite entertaining... hehe

    Thanks again for all the advise

    (ooh and I got the splintered door from HoR norm last night despite running (as tank) with 2 Palas and a Fury warrior... Phew. The Gods must have been smiling on me)
    Last edited by DarkKman; 08-10-2010 at 02:19 AM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    I almost responded to this with actual analysis, then I realized the gym thing is just a joke guys, chillax =P
    We realize it is a joke, which is why it is entertaining to respond with serious analytical analysis haha =P Continues the cycle of anything serious being met with a joke and any joke being met with a serious response just to keep trolls on their toes.

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