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Thread: Please Advise - Fresh 80 Pally Tank

  1. #1
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    Please Advise - Fresh 80 Pally Tank

    Hey all,

    This is my first toon ever to 80. I dinged a few days ago, and I'm pretty stoked. I love the role and responsibilities of a tank in groups, and have been doing pretty well at getting acclimated, although I have admittedly been taking it slow. Thus far, I have limited myself to running normals (HoL for the trinket off Loken, ToC5 for the trinket off Black Knight). I'm just looking for a little input to make sure I'm on the right path.

    I've read the gearing and enchanting guides on Maintankadin, and have them on my bookmarks bar for easy reference, and I've read a lot of other's HALP! inquiries here, but I just want to see what my next steps might be for my particular circumstances.

    When I dinged, I bought myself the Tempered Helm, Swordbreakers, Shieldwall, Plate Girdle, and Earthguard Ring, as well as the Saronite and Daunting stuff to fill in the gaps. Tonight I was fortunate to get the boots from regular ToC5. Have I gemmed and enchanted everything properly? The only problems I am aware of are my lack of enchants on my shoulders (as I don't have access to a shoulder enchant yet, until I get my rep with the Sons of Hodir up) and my weapon (as blood draining never seems to be in AH).

    At this point, since I'm at the def. cap, I've stopped running HoL for the avoidance trinket, and plan on farming ToC5 until I get The Black Heart, as well as the hand and leg pieces that drop there, if memory serves correctly. After I pick that up, will I be well geared enough to start running heroics, specifically to fill my other trinket slot with the Gossamer from H AN?

    Also, what should my first EoT purchase be? I was thinking the Libram of Defiance might be my best best in that slot.

    In any case, I know my gear is somewhat patchwork at this point, but I'm pleased with what little progress I've been able to make in my first few hours at 80, and just want to make sure I've got my head on straight as I begin tanking through content.

    Thanks in advance, and here's my armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ilant&r=Medivh

    Edit: I forgot I can also pick up the chest from PoS, mace, feet and legs from FoS, and the cloak, shield, and hands from HoR before hitting heroics, as well. I just want to fill my trinket slots with tank trinkets and get a better libram so I feel like less of a nab. On that note, are the ToC and ICC 5 mans easier or harder than the original 80 heroics?
    Last edited by Vigilant; 07-31-2010 at 09:58 PM.

  2. #2

    232 badge gear.

    You are on the right path. I would work towards getting the 232 badge gear that you can buy for emblems of truimph. Also pay attention to the gem slots. Most people are going to tell you screw that and just drop blue gems into your gear. Those people smoke too much crack =D j/k everyone. If your bonus is +9 or better gem for the bonus. Use one of the green or purple gems that have an avoidance stat and stamina. Also don't discount the +10 to stats enchant for chest/+10 stats nightmare tear that you can get.

    For your weapon, some people say Mongoose, I tend to not agree with them. you aren't getting all that much of a benefit from the agility. Try bladeward. Thats what I have. havent had any complaints.

    once you get a couple peices of that 232 you should have NO problem tanking almost any heroic. Cept H HOR. thats just a pain in the butt, even with 12 pieces of 264 gear.
    I'm not the man hiding behind the door in fear of danger. I'm the one that knocks... -WW, BB

  3. #3
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    Be careful to avoid the trap of gemming and enchanting as an end game tank would. In heroics, avoidance and block value (even block rating if you're not block-capped) are actually valuable, whereas they generally aren't something to gear for in tanking raid bosses.

    The Daunting and Tempered Saronite gear have quite a lot of defense, and you'll find yourself getting upgrades which are overall better but are lower in defense. You don't want to be worrying about a new upgrade dropping you below 535 defense. Chest, shield and (to a lesser extent) cloak are easy places to pick up defense enchants which don't sacrifice much in the way of stamina/EH.

    I wouldn't buy the Libram of Defiance. If you want a Libram upgrade, downgrading some emblems to get the Libram of the Sacred Shield (+450 BV with basically 100% uptime); the BV is a useful survival stat in heroics and is reasonable threat at your gear level, too. Alternatively, you can spend 45 minutes getting the blue libram from Grizzly Hill dailies which makes ShoR hit harder. It's not as good but at least it doesn't cost you emblems.

    I wouldn't advise Bladeward (expensive and relatively ineffective), or 10 stats gems, or a 10 stats enchant, as the latter two are both threat options. Consider a 9 agi/15 stam gem against a Nightmare tear: you're trading 5 stamina for a gain in 1 agi and 10 strength.

    A good trinket combination that will last you a long while is the Black Heart and the Glyph of Indomitability. Essence of Gossamer is reasonable (particularly for your gear level), and don't discount Lavanthor's Talisman (passive block rating and BV on use) from Heroic VH - while it's pretty terrible for tanking most raid bosses, the block rating and BV aren't wasted itemisation in heroics (block value being more effective as the hit sizes are smaller).

    The other thing is PROFESSIONS! You're missing out on free stats through having no professions. Have a read around to see which you prefer, but any combination of Jewelcrafting, Blacksmithing, Engineering, Mining or Enchanting or all decent. The only really bad ones for a tank are Herbalism, Skinning and Inscription.

    Just keep plugging away at the instances that have upgrades for you and let the EoT roll in, and you can get sizeable upgrades pretty quickly.

  4. #4
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    I'm not a 80 tank of any kinda. But in reply to Lumines with his profession ideas, just something to keep in mind.

    Enchanting - Have all enchants for yourself no more paying people for small enchants. Plus you get to enchant your rings, so extra Stam and other goodies.

    Jewelcrafting - Again no more paying people or search for hours sometimes for a jewelcrafter to cut your gem. Plus you get bigger gem values only for you, so again bigger stam and so on.

    Blacksmithing - Not much hear cause most of the armor is not helpful nor the weapons when you hit 80 cept for the titan destroyer if you really don't have anything and need a weapon? But in the end you get extra brackets for gems, so more slots for some extra added touches if you miss one of the caps.

    Mining - Well it explains itself, its a money maker. Its great to have on hand if your low on cash and don't wanna run constant instances. Just grab your gartherer addon and go mine crazy.

    Lastly I have Engi but I also say this last cause I NEVER used Engi ever so not really knowing if it has great perks for tanks. All I know from Engi is you can all all sorts of things to almost every piece of armor to have some kind of affect. In my eyes I don't see it as most helpful to the others.

    My 3 combo's I would go with though is.

    Jewel + Enchant = Max stat advantage
    Jewel + Mining = Bigger gem values + Some own pocket money
    Enchanting + Mining = Same deal as Jewel and Mining, but just with enchants on rings.

  5. #5
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    Engineering gives you 885 armor to gloves, which is a very nice chunk of mitigation. Solid profession choice for a tank IF you don't want to play the AH. If you want something with more moneymaking potential, you'd likely be better off with Alchemy, Enchanting, or JC, something like that.

    Be careful to avoid the trap of gemming and enchanting as an end game tank would. In heroics, avoidance and block value (even block rating if you're not block-capped) are actually valuable, whereas they generally aren't something to gear for in tanking raid bosses.
    Agreed. A lot of the guides simply say "stam stam stam" and people head down two paths, either following that advice blindly or completely rejecting it. The former end up stacking stam for 5-mans as fresh 80's and get pwned - the latter end up stacking avoidance stats for tough raid bosses and get pwned.

    Always think about what helps for the content you're doing. Start out gemming to a lot of socket bonuses with dodge or defense, and as you get into raiding, replace those gems with blue stam ones.

    I forgot I can also pick up the chest from PoS, mace, feet and legs from FoS, and the cloak, shield, and hands from HoR before hitting heroics, as well. I just want to fill my trinket slots with tank trinkets and get a better libram so I feel like less of a nab. On that note, are the ToC and ICC 5 mans easier or harder than the original 80 heroics?
    They are harder. Regular ToC 5 is about as hard as an original heroic (read: very easy), H ToC 5 and the reg ICC 5-mans have a bit of difficulty (I wouldn't recommend them until you farm the pieces from reg ToC 5 at least), and the heroic ICC 5-mans have some moderately heavy tank damage especially H HoR.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    637
    Engineering gives you 885 armor to gloves, which is a very nice chunk of mitigation. Solid profession choice for a tank IF you don't want to play the AH. If you want something with more moneymaking potential, you'd likely be better off with Alchemy, Enchanting, or JC, something like that.

    Be careful to avoid the trap of gemming and enchanting as an end game tank would. In heroics, avoidance and block value (even block rating if you're not block-capped) are actually valuable, whereas they generally aren't something to gear for in tanking raid bosses.
    Agreed. A lot of the guides simply say "stam stam stam" and people head down two paths, either following that advice blindly or completely rejecting it. The former end up stacking stam for 5-mans as fresh 80's and get pwned - the latter end up stacking avoidance stats for tough raid bosses and get pwned.

    Always think about what helps for the content you're doing. Start out gemming to a lot of socket bonuses with dodge/stam or defense/stam gems (always hybrids!), and as you get into raiding, replace those gems with blue stam ones.

    I forgot I can also pick up the chest from PoS, mace, feet and legs from FoS, and the cloak, shield, and hands from HoR before hitting heroics, as well. I just want to fill my trinket slots with tank trinkets and get a better libram so I feel like less of a nab. On that note, are the ToC and ICC 5 mans easier or harder than the original 80 heroics?
    They are harder. Regular ToC 5 is about as hard as an original heroic (read: very easy), H ToC 5 and the reg ICC 5-mans have a bit of difficulty (I wouldn't recommend them until you farm the pieces from reg ToC 5 at least), and the heroic ICC 5-mans have some moderately heavy tank damage especially H HoR.

  7. #7
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    Jul 2009
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    Again,I agree with Harmacy. I guess thou, I'd say against other thoughts is stick with stam and the reason I say this is two fold. 1st you are pretty much dealing w/LFG healers which only look at your HP's and judge your skill based on that, plus more stam gives them a cushion for heals. 2nd...this is a big one too, you are a fresher 80, you are not block capped and you don't have a huge gear selection to chose from. When you get to the point where you can put a block set together or avoidance set then do it. But right now you kinda have very few options as to what you can put on.
    To answer a few of your questions:
    ToC and ICC heroics are harder, and for an undergeared, fresh 80, they may be overwhelming. If you are going to do ICC heroics, go w/friends. See how they are before you pug.
    Your shoulders, get the 10k honor stam/res enchant. Its really the best one you can get anyway. A couple rules to live by as a tank...Don't ever pass on a piece of gear you can use, now or in the future. By nature, you should be a horder (not horde...lol) as a tank. Keep your gear.
    Gems-NEVER gem parry. Agi/stam is a great option for a red socket. Gem def only til you are 540 def then leave def gems alone.
    Hit cap is 8% and soft cap for expertise is 26, try to hit those numbers, it will help with threat. Always enchant your gear! even if its bad gear, properly enchanted will help you. It doesn't have to be the best enchant but put something on it. It will make you feel complete.
    Watch other tanks, see how they do it. Never let anyone rush you w/GOGOGOGO. Set your own pace.
    For professions-Mining is quick, it will get you HP's and allow you to bank some money til you decied what you want. IMO I'd go mining and JC at this stage in the game. JC offers you alot of flex as a pally.
    I am an Enchanter and JC, its kinda boring and I don't recommend anyone w/o alot of gold do enchanting. The mats from lvl 48 to 58 are STUPIDLY expensive and the ENC rods are very expensive to make, plus no one tips you!
    Being a BS is cool, but again its very hard to get from from 250-325 skill.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    30
    Thanks for so many quick replies!

    To respond to a few of them:

    As far as professions go, I had always planned, and still plan, to level up Blacksmithing and Jewel Crafting, for the max benefits for both my prot and ret specs (ret will come later, once my prot spec is comfortably geared out). That being said, I had no intention of leveling them as I leveled, as I wanted to ding absolutely as fast as possible (and managed to do so in 5 days /played, which I am happy with), and it is tough to want to take the time out of tanking (which I am really enjoying) to level them up now. I am also broke as a joke, which doesn't help either!

    As concerns gemming / enchanting, I seem to be hearing two schools of thought, one saying "gear for the content you're in" and one saying "go ahead and gear like an end-game tank". Quite honestly, I had never thought to gear for the content I'm in, largely because I figured that if people inspected me upon entering an instance, those who know what they're talking about would be glad to see me having one +agi/stam gem to activate my meta, and stacking stam unless its at the cost of one red or yellow slot for a +9 bonus, etc. I feel like life gets a lot more complicated if you start deviating from those principles that have been by-and-large accepted by the knowledgeable to gear for lesser content. However, it may be worth it?

    Thanks for the advice on librams, trinkets, and EoT purchases. Until I get to the point that I can comfortably run heroics, my EoT income is obviously very slow, which brings me to a question. What are the base stats that one can comfortably (note: not without griping from 6000 gs party members) run heroics 25k hp / 25 k armor, 30k hp / 30k armor?

    And as to the ToC5 ICC5 vs. original Wrath heroics, I was curious as to the difference between the ToC5 / ICC5 normals and the original Wrath heroics. Sorry, I see I didn't make that totally clear in my first post. The question essentially is, how hard of a step is it to go from TOC5 / ICC5 regular into H UK, H Nexus and on up the list?

    Thanks so much again, all!

    Edit: Does the end-game mantra that hit / expertise are not THAT important, and that you shouldn't go out of your way to gear for them, because your rotation has a far, far greater impact on your threat than any other factor apply to fresh tanks as well as tanks further along the road? As you can see, I have assumed that it does, in just taking whatever hit and expertise have shown up on gear, which is rather little. It has caused me no problems thus far, even when I end up getting grouped with some melee dps in 251's, etc.
    Last edited by Vigilant; 08-01-2010 at 10:29 AM.

  9. #9
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    Jul 2010
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    Looking at the Tier 9 (232) pieces, the 4 piece bonus looks pretty nice. Am I correct in assuming it is worth getting 4 pieces to get? If so, which piece is best to leave out in favor of an off-set piece or drop?

    Thanks

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    The question of what you "need" to run heroics is a really tricky one. I started running them about a month after the WotLK launch with something like 21k unbuffed health, and didn't have any problems (group of friends/guildies, though). But expectations have changed and standards have gone up; it's going to depend on your group, but you're going to find people being fidgety until you practically overgear heroics. So I wouldn't worry too much about it, but I would suggest 25k health as a minimum to avoid an instant vote kick.

    Hit/expertise: again, the advice to ignore threat stats on gear and focus purely on survival is from the perspective of running raid encounters as progression. In that scenario, your survival is paramount and any threat shortcomings can be dealt with by other means. In heroics, though, you're going to be running into people who vastly outgear you and aren't going to have the courtesy to count to 2 before AoEing everything in sight. To that end, pieces with BV, hit and expertise are perhaps more valuable to you for heroic farming than they would be otherwise. I still wouldn't suggest gemming or enchanting for threat stats, but take them into account when choosing upgrades. Again, gear to your circumstances; if you're not having threat issues, ignore threat stats because you don't need them.

    As for the general point of gearing the way that's most effective vs. gearing towards the perception that you're "doin' it rite" - the sorry truth is that the majority of the people who play this game haven't a sodding clue about their own class and role, far less someone else's. Misinformation spreads quickly through trade chat and the official forums and what the wider community "knows" to be correct often isn't. And the less informed someone is, they more likely they are to be convinced of their unassailable knowledge. I wouldn't ever advise making gearing choices based on what people will think when they inspect you. Gear the way that best suits the content you're running, and screw any naysayers who may or may not know what the hell they're talking about anyway.

    I'm actually not a fan of the T9 4pc bonus. It's nice if you need the upgrades for those slots anyway, but I wouldn't specifically gear for it.

    If you can run ToC5 normal you'll be fine for some of the easier heroics; Violet Hold, Utgarde Keep (don't overpull at the beginning! Those mobs stun), Utgarde Pinnacle (never understood why this one has/had a reputation as being "tricky" - it isn't), the Nexus, Drak'Tharon Keep, Azjol Nerub... just try them and see, and don't be discouraged if you find it tough going. Healers are mostly spoiled these days, and you might find a few who are incapable of working with anything less than a tank who overgears the content already.

  11. #11
    Of the t9 gear, assuming you arent doing any other content capable of dropping better loot, Id say go with the legs, gloves and chest, if you possibly can, just get the 245 craftable chest. the 245 triumph offset shoulders and helm are really good and will last you until icc raid gear

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