Glyph of Indomitability and The Black Heart

[pvn23]

I'm having a hard time thinking about what I should do with these two trinkets. I currently have both and am currently using Glyph of Indomitability as I OT/MT ICC10/25 (my guild is currently at 6/12 but I don't think this relates to anything I want to ask you guys). Seeing that Glyph of Indomitability gives a 1792 Armor increase with a buff where it increase your Dodge by 512 for 20 seconds. Though The Black Heart gives you +120 Stamina PLUS a proc which increase your armor by 7056.

Would this mean that, using the Black Heart is a smarter decision then to using the Glyph of Indomitability as I OT/MT ICC10/25? Or should I stick with the Glyph of Indomitability?

What do you guys think? I'm not sure if a question like this was asked on these forums because I didn't use the search function. It'd be great if someone can answer it though!

TIA

[marklar]

use both? that's what i did for a long time.

if you bought the CSK and are asking which to replace, i think it depends. i replaced the black heart most of the time, just because i liked the always-on armor to an uncontrollable proc. on taunt-taunt fights like saurfang, i would probably use the black heart because the armor uptime while tanking is much higher.

[pvn23]

I'm actually using CSK and Glyph of Indomitability at the moment but it seems as if the Glyph of Indomitability isn't much help as The Black Heart is when I'm running ICC with my guild.

[MellvarTank]

Depends on the fight and your healing situation really. On a heavy physical damage fight the glyph is going to help more, on a higher magic fight then the black heart will likely help more.

Try to get into a ToC25 to get Satrina's scarab/Jugg's Vitality.

[pvn23]

I've been hearing that around a lot lately. The stamina is worth it if you're fighting a boss that does spell damage and the armor is worth it if you're fighting a boss that does melee damage.

[feralminded]

I'm assuming normal mode here considering the trinkets and it does change HM. Anyhow here's my quick and dirty list of what I use on my druid (I have a juggernaut on my warrior so its a little different).
BH + CSK (Max HP): Sindragosa, LK, Keleseth Tank, BQ OT, LDW
BH + Glyph (Max Armor): Saurfang, Festergut, Rotface (both tanks), Other princes tank, Lawlboat, Putricide (BH is fantastic P3 here)
Glyph + CSK (Consistent physical DPS with some magic damage): Dreamwalker, BQ MT, BoneSTORM!!

Black Heart > Glyph on the taunt fights as you get superb uptime % (as said above). Glyph > BH > CSK on the pure or near pure physical fights. And CSK > BH > Glyph on the high magic damage fights or the ones where the magic damage spike can kill you. Also before the buff arrived those neat little use-trinkets were actually kind of useful. I remember tanking 3 buff festergut and chaining out my trinkets and mini-CD's (warrior shield block, 4 piece bonus) to prevent damage the entire time.

Also don't forget to swap in your 245 tanking ring for the physical fights, or more succinctly swap in your high HP ring for Sind/LK/Keleseth/LDW/BQ OT, and keep the armor ring everywhere else ... lol.

[pvn23]

Ah, that made it so much more simpler to understand! Thank you so much feralminded! Well, looking at what you posted, it seems like I should be carrying all 3 trinkets in my bag when I run ICC with my guildmates.

TBH + Glyph of Indomitability for Taunting
Glyph of Indomitability + TBH for Physical Fights
CSK + TBH for High Magic

This will let me remember which trinkets I should be using for whichever fights I encounter. Thanks again!

[feralminded]

Also don't forget to always have your CSK equipped when pugging so people "ooh" and "ahhh" over your mad HP!! =)

I honestly wish armor was a stat in most people's raid frames so they could make noises when my BH procs and I hit 49k on my drood.

[feralminded]

Hrm ... thinking on this a bit more I feel I may have mislead you somewhat and for that I apologize. This all strongly depends on your current stats but upon further analysis, unless you current Armor is very low (< 30k) and/or HP very high (> 70k), then the CSK > Glyph in virtually all scenarios. TBH, on the other hand, is superior to the glyph in virutally all scenarios and superior to the CSK in taunting fights. So if you are only considering those three trinkets, and assuming your stats are semi-normal, I believe the simple answer is CSK + TBH 100% of the time. I apologize for my misleading answers before, crack is bad for you.

[Draxhammer]

Feralminded is right, especially in ICC. With the 20% dodge debuff and DR you aren't going to get that much actual dodge off the Glyph use. Also with a 30% buff to health stamina is even more important. Why not use CSK + TBH 100% of the time in ICC?

[MellvarTank]

Also with a 30% buff to health stamina is even more important.

The 30% buff doesn't change stat priorities.

[Draxhammer]

Maybe I'm missing something then. The 30% buff doesn't increase all my stats. It increases health + damage + healing. So every point of Stam is 30% more effective than it was without the buff. It doesn't increase my armor or dodge or agi. Why wouldn't the priorities shift slightly?

[MellvarTank]

...Because arguably that makes armor even better, as your health increased regardless of you adding/not adding stam.

It doesn't change stat priorities.

[MellvarTank]

EH gearing has 2 components, Armor, and Stam...not just stam. ICC = Gear for EH. The explanation of this is here:

http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...king-mechanics)

You'll need some coffee and a sandwich.

(I'm not saying armor is more important BTW... I'm just saying, the buff does not change stat priorities.)

[Nez]

I wear dual armor trinkets now on everything but Heroic Sindy, and DPS trinkets on trash with the 30% buff I find it more beneficial with my health being as high as it is.

[Aggathon]

Maybe I'm missing something then. The 30% buff doesn't increase all my stats. It increases health + damage + healing. So every point of Stam is 30% more effective than it was without the buff. It doesn't increase my armor or dodge or agi. Why wouldn't the priorities shift slightly?

It's pretty simple math really mainly because the 30% is a constant.

To break it down:
You have two ways to be able to take more damage from a boss: mitigation and stam. Either you can have more hit points so you take more damage or you can mitigate the incoming damage so that you take more hits but they're just smaller even though you don't have more hit points.

For example, lets say you have 200 hit points and zero percent reduction from armor. You can then take 200 hit points worth of damage.

Now let's say that you have 200 hit points and 50% reduction in armor. This means that you can take twice as much damage so up to 400 hit points worth of damage, even though you only have 200 hit points. This is definited mathematically as:

EHP = hit points/(1-%reduction from armor)

Now lets say you increase your hit points by 100% (double your hit points) you now have 400 hit points and 50% reduction in armor, but you don't still have 400 EHP, instead armor affects the hit points you already have so that you now have 800 EHP, so by increasing stam, you also increased your benefit from armor.

From this you see that the number on top is a constant. If you double your hit points you double your EHP because of armor. Mathematically shown as:

EHP = (C*hit points)/(1-%reduction from armor)

And since in math you can pull things that are multiplied in the numerator out of the paranthesises (the associative property):

EHP = C * (hit points/(1-%reduction from armor))

Therefore the C flat increase (in this case the 30% increased health from the ICC buff) applies to all EHP evenly and so armor and stam are still at their same equivalent values.

Does that make sense?

[Draxhammer]

Thanks Agg. I've read the post that Mellvar linked before and I am aware how EH works. I hadn't thought about it the way you presented it. We get the 30% buff to EH because of the Stam buff but it doesn't change the ratios for stam and armor, as you pointed out.

Thanks and I stand, errr sit corrected.

[Aggathon]

Thanks and I stand, errr sit corrected.

Ba dum ching!