You hit the nail on the head earlier in your post. People are selfish. They don't want to do a raid with people that are geared to capably do it. They want to require ridiculous amounts of gear to ensure, what they think will be, a fast, easy run.
Is it just me or like are gear score minimums rising?
LOL I mean, I just logged and in Trade I'm hearing people say they need 5.2k gs min for TotC 10. Really? I mean, I understand the need for fast runs and achievements but that doesn't necessarily mean you need to pack more protection than metal plated condoms. I'm starting to think that ever since 3.2 or something, people have been a little bit selfish with raids and asking for too much when it comes to gear. I think that there may come a point when once you ding level cap, you're just there for show because you can't get gear from certain raids because people are asking for overgeared people. But I'm getting off topic. Are gearscore minimums rising?
What is min G.S. to start raiding? My toon just dinged 80 and I'd like to know the minimum to start raiding and where to begin raiding since 3.2.2 patch. I mean, it was easy for my main cause back then my guild would just run Naxx till we were geared for other raids and yeah but now I don't know where to begin. ^^ A little help please?
If you don't have a guild to carry you, the best thing you can do is to farm heroics until you're decked out in 219 or better gear, and then you can start rolling through ToC 10 normal. People will sometimes ask for insane gear to make things fast, but the thing -you- need to focus on is establishing a solid reputation for yourself as a good player.
If you can make a name for yourself as someone that is competent at their role (healing, DPS, or tanking) and that you can exceed what the quality of your gear (according to some add on) says you should be able to do (and well skilled people, even people with limited play time do this on a regular basis) then GS won't matter as much because you'll be invited based on your rep rather then you gear.
Yes, nowadays you have to lie your way into raids. Tell them, with confidence, that you meet the requested gear score even if you don't, once you're in the raid chances are they will not find out. Remember to get all Wrathful off pieces that don't require arena rating to boost your score, but don't forget to equip your proper gear before the pull.
If gear score is what they want, then gear score is what they'll get.
honestly you can get ~5k-5.3k gs without even stepping into a raid aside from the weekly raid quest for frost badges and you can get that in a week easily. imo if you can't even put in the effort to grind out the basic 232 t9 and 245 badge pieces then you probably won't put the effort into helping the raid that's carrying you. that's why i always ask for 5.2k+ anyways....
if you are in a guild yeh people will probably be more lenient with your gear and carry you through toc 10/25 at least to get some starter gear.
True, but even still with full t9 gear it apparently isn't enough to enter raids. Well on Jubei'Thos at least.honestly you can get ~5k-5.3k gs without even stepping into a raid aside from the weekly raid quest for frost badges and you can get that in a week easily. imo if you can't even put in the effort to grind out the basic 232 t9 and 245 badge pieces then you probably won't put the effort into helping the raid that's carrying you. that's why i always ask for 5.2k+ anyways....
And the major flaw in gearscore is it sets a stereotype for the kind of player the person is; "All blues? Pfft. What a noob!" [A few instances later] "H-h-he out tanked me." As well, sometimes the stats out do items with a higher item level which adds to gearscore. Take for instance The Black Heart trink off ToC norm. +222 Stam with an armor proc a good beginner trink. But it's item level is 200 meaning someone could just simply say "Oh, you've got a 200. Sorry, we don't want a wipe". And not to be offending in any way but asking for 5.2k min for any raid apart from probably TotC heroic or ICC & Ruby Sanctum is very unreasonably bias. I hope you're asking 5.2k for those raids because anything else is amazingly odd.
Behind every great tank, there is a great healer.
Every time i see a post like this, and you see a lot of these on the official forums, i just think to myself why don't you just start your own raid?
I mean ToC10, the tactics are hardly mind blowing, and a 10 person raid is easy enough to fill, so just start your own and stop clogging up forums with whiney.."i can't raid beacuse my GS is to low threads".
If you don't want to raid lead, tough.
As well know gearscore doesn't equate to skill, but as someone who runs raids pretty regularly, the higher the gearscore, the more dps even the failures on the server can do.
Next time someone asks what your gearscore is, tell them what dps/hps you do or what your buffed EH is. 9 out of 10 times you'll get your invite.
"Just because it's not nice doesn't mean it's not miraculous." - T. P.
Imagine for a second if we all led our own raids. God. what a mess. At best it'd work decently, at worst (and far more likely), trade would be clogged with half or quarter-full raids of not only the people who insist on absurd numbers (still refusting to use THAT phrase.) but the people who followed your advice and started their own raids. Sure, in a happy world the two ICC 10s or whatever would merge, but we all know that always won't be the case.
Yes, the...numbers....for certain places have become inflated in general. Mostly it comes from the efficiency center. People want a smooth, quick, easy run over anything else. Interesting point and food for thought though: Many of the same people who advertise for absurd...numbers....are the ones who complain that content is too easy. My question is, if you didn't want everyone to be incredibly overgeared, wouldn't it be a bit more of a challenge?
"I don't have a dream, so I protect the dreams of others."~Inui Takumi
If people want to raid but they don't meet the GS requirements of the raid leaders they olny have a few options.
1) Attain that GS, either via badges or honor or craftable gear.
2) Start your own raid with your own requirements
3) Don't raid
The fact of the matter is people pugging raids will try to judge the capability of those wanting to raid with them. There are only a few ways and means of doing that, GS being one of them.
Personally i don't use GS but rather ask for achievements, because quite often i find that just having decent gear doesn't mean you won't stand in the fire.
ok short story.
i was running Random-Hs noticed someone spamming trade for Uber GS and Achievement...
finished HFoS, same dude still there. still spamming.
I took the time to armory him. He had neither the GS or the achievement.
i called him out in trade. he offered me a place in his run. ( i had neither as well )
ps if you look hard enough im sure you can find the addon that allows you to link an achievement you don't have.
google for "Achievement link generator"
I downed H LK 25 the first day ICC came out Lawl!
Well, I think there's actually a fourth option. It's one that takes more time but it gives a test of what people know more than how long they can spend grinding badges/getting lucky enough for stuff to drop and winning the roll.
The option is learning classes. Learning just about every class you can, or at least knowing the baseline numbers of what a particular class needs to begin raiding. Like most people know what hitcap is. Or if they don't they should. It's far more intelligent to ask a raider 'what's your hit at?' than to just stare at a number and pray to the digital gods this guy can actually land a spell.
If you learn classes, it'll help you compose your raids better, and it'll help spread good practices. Lack of attention to the basics of a class tends to result in those laughable stories everyone has of a DK gemming int or Spell hit, or hunters gemming for melee, etc. Sure, for most of us those things don't happen, or if they do they happen sparingly, but if you look at any good 'post your funniest/worst dungeon/raid moment' thread, it's typically eight pages long and many of them are full of stuff like that.
Sure, I could say that my Shaman does 5k healing, or I could say he's hitcapped in elemental specc and his crit and SP are at certain values. But six gets you ten if I do that, the RL is gonna be real quiet for a bit while he asks people if those numbers mean anything, or he's alt-tabbed to google EJ to see if they mean anything. Because all he knows is...that number. That's all he recruits by, that's all he raids by. See where the problem is there?
To me the bottom line is that if you wanna use that system, fine. But you're encouraging bad practices if you use it and only it to run your raids. Encouraging it and telling people who don't meet those standards just to either go along with it or don't raid doesn't begin to solve or take responsibility for the problem.
"I don't have a dream, so I protect the dreams of others."~Inui Takumi
yep being in a guild makes it easy. when we were bored took some new guys through the first wing of icc. there were a few wipes but we did it, and no one in the raid had over 4200 gs. most pugs wont even consider you unless you are over 5k and even then they whine.
Sadly I saw someone trying to get a naxx run together and was asking for 5.5k gs min. I laughed
Mkay. Lets see. I didn't whine about it first of all, I just asked through a forum don't you reckon its getting a bit high?I mean ToC10, the tactics are hardly mind blowing, and a 10 person raid is easy enough to fill, so just start your own and stop clogging up forums with whiney.."i can't raid beacuse my GS is to low threads".
Secondly, we would start it by ourselves, BUT we can't. In reality, not many people would want to run the early WotLK raid content like Naxx which may be good for dropping gear for raising our gear score or grabbing a multitude of emblems SO WE CAN participate in other raids.
See what I did there? One leads to the other. The minimum gs is now a bit too high for nearly anybody to get in without spending a shit load of precious farmed gold to grab gear that could get an equal equivalent OR BETTER from raiding.
So would you like cheese with your whine?
Behind every great tank, there is a great healer.
I was actually quite surprised about it when I decided to put some serious effort into on of my alts.
So I read up on my class, get the hang of it, set up some addons for it.
Then I start collecting gear. I spend some badges, get crafted 264 and 245 gear, run some heroics. In the end I was in a mixture of gear, scaling from 200 to 264. I was at GS 4800.
I was able to easily push out enough dps to do icc10, but my GS was preventing me from even going ToC 10.
Luckily, I am able to ask some guildies for a toc 10 tribute to insanity achievement if I want to.
On the flipside, I've seen people fail horribly bad in ToC 10. It's as if these guys don't know how to play their class. (And they were complaining about my imba chestpiece.)
Originally Posted by Kahmal
they ask for GS
I whisper back 44k 31k Armor unbuffed
Try doin the same
Heh, given the tanking shortage these days, you kinda got most people over a barrel. They can either invite you after however many minutes of spamming and thank their lucky stars they actually got a tank, or they can be snobs and throw a fit about how your health is too low (had people whine that anything under 50k health is unpossible.) and then wait another god-knows-how-long for another tank.
and speaking as someone who's wanted to do Naxx, Ulduar, etc. runs for his alts and even for his mains, simply for the purposes of achievements and getting others some gear, it's NOT easy. Even in a guild it is NOT easy to cajole people into raiding lower-end content unless it happens to be the weekly and in that case all most people will wanna do is the weekly boss and that'll be it.
The allure of loot and Kingslayer is powerful, when there's an ICC on the calendar and some other raid on the calendar on a different day at a different time, they have eyes only for ICC. I have had people join the raid after I mentioned it in Guild and we've had the following conversation:
Player 1: "so what we raiding? ICC?"
Raid Leader: "um, no. I said we were doing Ulduar, remember?"
Player 1: "oh..."
Player one has left the raid group
Yeah....that happens more than most of us probably care to admit. Everyone claims they'd like to do the old stuff, but when it comes down to actually doing it, they'd rather farm profession mats or do BGs or grind rep with someone than go.
So yeah. You can talk about just doing the older stuff like it's easy. It's not. People always want the shiny and new stuff. It's a bored day on the server when most of those awesome people will willingly log onto their lower-geared alts to actually run a raid that's around their gear-level, let alone come with on their main.