Druid Gemming

[feralminded]

I hate to be so abrupt but I use Tuskar's as a quick and dirty way to judge the quality of a tank. The majority of the best tanks I play with and talk to use it, plain and simple. It's a no-brainer to me, I'd use the enchant if it was 1%. Tanks move bosses into and out of position all of the time and there's always fire to run out of and as long as doing those things faster benefits the raid then run speed is the defacto boot enchant imho for everyone, not just tanks or melee. The only toon I don't necessarily do this on is my cat but even then I still don't feel comfortable without it because even though I am already fast, faster is always better.

[Gape]

The healers are healing regardless of if you take damage or not.

Threat is only an issue in the first few seconds of a fight. And even then it's not an issue really because of ToT and MD. And if those aren't enough then it's not gemming that is the issue, its a rotation issue.

Gemming the way you are suggesting means that you take less damage over the course of a fight. But you don't die slowly, you die in very short bursts of time. Crit/Avoidance (AKA RNG) can save your life sometimes, but you don't want to, and can't, rely on it because it is RNG and is not guaranteed to save your life whereas Stamina is always there.

Gemming the way you suggest is good for trash IMO. But even then I'd rather switch to a few DPS pieces.

And I really wish Tankspot would put an armory link thing in like EJ does! ^.^

[Roofdog]

well i don't say stop gemming stamina all togetter, just gem it less. most socket bonesses in druid gear are agi or stamina so you get some extra stamina of it anyway and having 60k hp should be enough in any fight for the healers to keep you up. couz if your getting so mutch burst dmg those 20k isn't gonne help you mutch anyway. the difference however is if your switching mid fight between dps and tank your mutch more usefull. places like festergut are awesome for feral tanks at that point.

i do get treat problems when i gem for full stamina esp. on trash and its deff. not the rotation (comon druid tank rotation is the easyest one in the game) mainly its couz of to many dps who can't wayt 1 second be4 starting to nuke the trash with 18k dps.

having different types of tanks along to boss fights is the best way to go. i do understand your point of gemming stamina, but if your doing bloodqueen for instance. get a avoidence tank to mt the boss and have a stamina tank to soak, it would probebly one of the best setups you can get on a boss.

the best spec and best gear for one person doesn't have to be the best for everybody, the spec and gear you like best is most of the time the best you can get

[Gape]

20k is another 3rd of your health pool if you're at 60k. And 20k (depending on the fight) is another 1-3 boss melee swings.

Most druid socket bonuses are 4-6 Agi. We have 4 possible 6 Stam socket bonues.

And threat problems happen on trash, thats why I suggest putting on a DPS trinket or two for trash.

I usually OT BQL because I have 90k HP. Having a tank with high avoidance for H BQL is great, but it's not a difficult enough fight to gear for.

There is a huge difference between 60k and 80k HP when solo tanking LK P2 and P3. (with no CD's Used) With 80k HP you have an extra 20k HP than you would if you only have 60k HP. (with no CDs) with 60k HP you get hit for 50k by soul reaper leaving you with 10k HP. If you don't avoid the next hit then you're toast. I know you'd never solo tank Soul reapers without a CD but even with a CD it's pretty sketchy with only 10k HP left. Only CD that would save you is SI.

And while the extra DPS I could get from gemming crit/agi is nice, the DPS of my group has never been so close that it matters.

[Menethal]

There is a huge difference between 60k and 80k HP when solo tanking LK P2 and P3. (with no CD's Used) With 80k HP you have an extra 20k HP than you would if you only have 60k HP. (with no CDs) with 60k HP you get hit for 50k by soul reaper leaving you with 10k HP. If you don't avoid the next hit then you're toast. I know you'd never solo tank Soul reapers without a CD but even with a CD it's pretty sketchy with only 10k HP left. Only CD that would save you is SI.

There is a other issu about cooldowns, it's that more stamina means a more powerfull Survival Instinct. Anyway i don't even understand how it is possible to be MT in HLK25 with 60K HP. Just yesterday, returning from the first transition phase, LK was still buffed from the P1, and hit me at 60K : / ( in fact, 59700, but, still !!! )

[Roofdog]

well the largest hit i got from lk was 50k returning from transitionphase whithout popping barkskin couz the rest of the dmg gets absorbed trough armor and spell reduction.

its pretty simple you go for full stamina you get harder hits couz your armor is lower as someone who goes for diff stats. couz you get lower hits you don't need that mutch stamina. only downside is it won't reduce the magic dmg that mutch

[Gape]

Anyway i don't even understand how it is possible to be MT in HLK25 with 60K HP.

I was kind of thinking the same thing. It's why I want the Tankspot forums to have an armory link thing like EJ's forums ^.^

[Gape]

its pretty simple you go for full stamina you get harder hits couz your armor is lower as someone who goes for diff stats.

You're not guaranteed to Crit, therefore absorbing some of the damage dealt. Stamina is always there, whether you need it or not. Crit is just another form of RNG.

And if you want to bring up Armor vs. Stam then Armory me and look at my trinkets. I'm not going full stam everywhere because I have done the math and i get more EHP out of my current Trinket set up than I do with 2 stam/2armor trinkets. If I were to get all of my agi socket bonuses I would gain 46 agi=92 armor (no multipliers) Or I can stick with my 30 Stam gem in the socket and get 15 stam more, per gem, before the amazing Bear Stam multiplier. the multiplier for Agi is 1.06*1.02 The multiplier for Stam is 1.25*1.1*1.06*1.02

The reason everyone goes EHP is because you cannot be 100% sure that you will dodge the attack or absorb/block enough of an amount of the damage that is incoming. But you can rely on EHP to be there.

The amount of armor I'd gain by Gemming for all of my socket bonuses (plus the armor I'd get from an Agi gem) does not equal the amount of EHP I get by just skipping those socket bonuses. There is math to prove this.

[Menethal]

Ok you're harder hit is 50K but I'd rather have 90K and tanking 60K damage, thant having 60K and receiving 50K hits

[felhoof]

atm i'm walking around in icc with around 60k hp and thats enough to be able to tank LK25 HC. i don't use full stamina gems exept on the blue sockets ofc. (o yea and don't use the gemming i use as an example atm since i'm trying out a crit build as druid tank )

Spoken like someone who has never seen or done LK hard mode in 25 man as a tank.

If you can avoid the damage, it's great. If you can't avoid the damage - and probability says that in most fights you won't quite often - being able to take the hits is very important.

[Gape]

Spoken like someone who has never seen or done LK hard mode in 25 man as a tank.

If you can avoid the damage, it's great. If you can't avoid the damage - and probability says that in most fights you won't quite often - being able to take the hits is very important.

I didn't know I was allowed to be this blunt with someone. I shall use this in the future.

Thanks, Fellhoof

[Roofdog]

first of all felhoof, yes i have tanked every contend in the game from vannilla wow naxx40 till LK25 HC though we haven't killed him yet

2nd thx gape for the numbers on it. i couldn't find any numbers on the stuff i wanted to know and you just made it clear, so yea stamina looks like the best way to gem atm though i hope blizzard will change that in cata so its more a choise of hou to build your tank as stamina or avoidence based and that it works equaly good. i just like it better when there's more versitile specs and gemming. couz why take the common route everybody is taking if you can find a different way to do the same. the challange is way more fun

[Gape]

I'm sorry to call you out Roofdog, but I just looked at your armory and you haven't done anything passed normal Frostwing Halls on 25 man. And even on 10 you haven't done up to H LK. Mind elaborating?

[Roofdog]

i was in a diff guild back then when we were trying lk hc but couz i wasn't on the raiding team i only got to fight the lk on hc25 since they were saved there never killed him though. after a few weeks that guild fell apart, and i went back to my old social raiding guild where we're doing 10 man hc's

so yea armorie is nice to see what we've killed but you'll never see whats attempted there

[Gape]

I really doubt that a guild working on H LK 25 would take a tank that hasn't done many of the previous heroic modes into the H LK 25 encounter. Maybe your guild was really nice, I kind of doubt it though.

A WoL report can prove me wrong though.

[Roofdog]

guild was of the guy who lives above me, i got in as healer couz my heal gear is higher as my tank gear basicly i only go into guilds where i got rl friends

don't wanne sound like a complete noob but WoL report? whaz that

[Gape]

World of Logs Report.

[Darksend]

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=69409/soul-reaper is why you gem stam. Because of the 30% buff, you can (and in fact I do) use full DPS gear not just gems and enchants but dps rings, trinkets, neck, and cape, and still have 60K HP (see this profile). That is the gear I wear for every single ICC fight, except Valithria, Sind, and LK.

BUT!

For HLK 25, I can tell you that reaper + melee its for upwards of 70-80K and at times even when I am fully topped off and using a cooldown, I still die from it with 90+ K HP.

[Gape]

Thank you, Darksend.

[felhoof]

So let me get this straight, Roofdog.

You're claiming that you tanked 25man LK hard mode. But you don't have the achievement for killing LK on normal mode in 25-man. You've only been in on a Marrowgar and Gunship hard mode kill. Yet your friends apparently just let you drop in one week on a hard mode 25-man attempt - and let you tank it - despite your not having any hard mode gear, any experience at successfully killing LK at 25-man level.

I call shenanigans.

In any case, you're simply wrong. You're speaking out of ignorance and hope for something that doesn't exist right now.