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## Druid Gemming

A guildie and I got into a discussion right now and I am not versed enough on the maths to give a good answer. Solution: Turn to those at TS that know WTF they're talking about. The question is:

What is the difference in +HP for a Druid tank, assuming all +Stam buffs (Kings, Sanct, Fort, etc...) are present, between the +30 Stam gem and the +51 Stam gem?

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not really too sure, but i think the only buff that will make a difference here is kings/sanc since fort and motw are static

difference between using the +30 and the +51 would be the 21 sta difference x 14.9 (from wow wiki) = 312.9 hp

could be wrong though, wait for more answers :P

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30 Stam = 49 Stam
51 Stam = 83 Stam
This is with just kings.

To find out the amount of HP each gem would give in ICC is:

51 Stam gem
83*10 = 830*1.30 = 1079 HP

30 Stam
49*10 = 490*1.30 = 637 HP
Last edited by Gape; 07-23-2010 at 06:53 AM. Reason: Possible Misinformation

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Here is the actual breakdown for you of the prior persons math so you can understand the pieces involved.

Dire Bear Form = 0.25

Talents (all can apply)
Improved Mark of the Wild = 0.01 * N (Max of 2)
Heart of the Wild = 0.02 * N (Max of 5)
Survival of the Fittest = 0.02 * N (Max of 3)

Stat buff (only one can apply).
Blessing of Kings = 0.1
Blessing of Sanctuary = 0.1
Blessing of Forgotten Kings = 0.08

Zone Buff
Icecrown Buff = 0.3
Note, this is a buff to health, not stamina, therefore is applied after stamina is rounded to the nearest whole number.

The druid modifier on stamina is the following.

1.25 * 1.02 * 1.1 * 1.06 * 1.1 = 1.635315
This value is rounded because stats can only be whole numbers. This is the effective stamina a druid has per point of stamina on their gear.
1 Stamina = 1.635315 Effective Stamina

There is 10 health per point of stamina.

Outside of ICC
30 Stamina = 49 (Effective Stamina) * 10 (Health per Stamina) = 490 Health
51 Stamina = 83 * 10 = 830 Health

In ICC
30 Stamina = 490 * 1.3 (Zone Buff) = 637 Health
51 Stamina = 830 * 1.3 = 1079 Health

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Originally Posted by geeksbsmrt
A guildie and I got into a discussion right now and I am not versed enough on the maths to give a good answer. Solution: Turn to those at TS that know WTF they're talking about. The question is:

What is the difference in +HP for a Druid tank, assuming all +Stam buffs (Kings, Sanct, Fort, etc...) are present, between the +30 Stam gem and the +51 Stam gem?
just wondering, since the question has already been answered, that is a very strange question. Is the person a JCer but not using any dragons eyes or something and you are trying to convince them to?

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Yes, they JC and I told them that I was thinking of switching my professions to gain the extra Stam on my gems. Currently my toon is Herb/Scribe. I was going to switch to JC/BS for the extra +Stam and extra sockets. He felt that I would be "stepping on his toes" as he is our guilds only JC. I wanted to give him the numbers just to show him it is a decent HP difference and would make his job (Sham heals) easier...

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I have not cut gem other than for myself in 6 months, in fact the only epic gems I even have are agi/stam and stam, and I have been a 300+ jcer since 10 minutes after the BC servers opened and you could train jcing. Your professions are terrible for tanking, the inscription shoulder enchant especially for a druid (should be using the pvp one). Personally I prefer LWing but if you dont have the gold it is close enough that you can level mining and get enough mats for both at the same time.

8. For absolute cutting edge performance, you should go with JC/LW. But really, your professions come second to more basic problems. You need to learn the basics of feral druids.

Use Kanlon's guide for feral druids in general (felhoof here on Tankspot).

Always gem and enchant for stamina, except to activate your meta. For example, 40 stam (or tuskarrs) is superior to 16 agility. This is why Darksend commented on your shoulders, even though the inscriptions shoulder enchant from an item is "supposed" to make it superior from a stats budget perspective, but its not. Agility is not bad, it's just second to stamina, which is why 20 agi to gloves is still OK for you (although Darksend might have you put 280 armor or more likely, 18 stam on your gloves). You will also note that felhoof's gear ranking advocate going for agi socket bonuses if it can be done with agi/stam gems, where it makes sense. I personally agree with felhoof, a little agi here and there just makes things smoother, since feral druids are supposed to run off agi.

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I'm not sure if you guys were looking at my armory or not when you made these posts. I agree that my professions are not good at all for tanking which is why I'm looking at switching. My shoulders are and have been the PvP enchant except on my Kitty set where I do use the Inscription. The only red gem I have is 10agi/15stam in chest. I have a few Agi enchants but mostly Stam/Arm. Check it out let me know if there is anything you would change. I am at work ATM and cannot check but I believe I am close to a 30% dodge in ICC and 80k HP buffed.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...e&cn=Alathirin

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swap the agi/stam gem in your chest and the 30stam in your helm. probably just an oversight. but its a difference of 8 agi just for changing gems. and tuskar's (sp?) on your boots. They're nothing major, just lil tweaks.

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Yea, I overlooked the gemming. But why would I do Tuskar's? If I'm looking for a +Stam enchant wouldn't Greater Fort or Heavy Borean Armor Kit be of more use? The +speed means absolutely nothing to me.

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Originally Posted by geeksbsmrt
The +speed means absolutely nothing to me.
If you were a cat druid, this would hold true as you'd have the passive talent granting you 30% increased movement speed. However, as a bear you do not. Just because you don't understand the value, does not mean it is worthless. On any fight involving movement it will be benefitial, though the benefit to a tank is a little different and harder to necessarily quantify. For a DPS it is a little more feasible to actually quantify the value, such as for a ranged DPS on Festergut. Even on a fight with low amounts of movement, the minor speed increase will result in higher damage dealt over the course of the fight than the alternatives normally (Icewalker could beat it if you aren't hit capped).

You shouldn't take minor speed increase so lightly. Everytime you move have to move, you increase the value of it.

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Most boss fights I have been in I have not seen the need. Could be situational for Sind on Air phase and phase 3 and LK. But as far as other fights I have no issues with movement. Maybe one tick from LM Cold Flame, DnD on LDW, Tanking Oozes on Rot, etc... Any time I need quick movement to get to a boss/mob Feral Charge is available. If I need to move to clear a mechanic I am already anticipating and ready to move as soon as the mechanic happens. Maybe that is just me. I don't know. I could see how it can benefit someone. I just don't see the benefit in it.

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If Putricide drops a slime puddle under where you are tanking, does getting out of the puddle 8% faster not help both your survival as well as that of the melee DPS? If the Lich King casts Defile on you, does running out of it 8% faster decrease the odds of it expanding? Does moving to a Frost Tomb 8% faster help you shed your debuff sooner on Sindragosa? Does moving 8% faster on Marrowgar help you stack with the other tanks quickly after a Bone Storm?

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I haven't had a major issue with getting out of slime on PP. However, I have only been in the fight a few times. PUGs suck and the guild is not large enough/ geared enough to get there alone. I have not been to Sind or LK which is why I said it may be of use there. However, during the LM fights the tanks do not move. If they are targeted with Bone Storm the Cold Flame will tick one time while it is being dropped then stop ticking as it is spreading out. The ONLY time we move as tanks on LM is if there is a weird reset. I have always been the first to react to a bad reset on LM and have always been the first back into position.

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Originally Posted by geeksbsmrt
For those who understand, no explanation is necessary; For those who do not, no explanation is possible.
Just because you don't understand the value, doesn't mean it isn't there. Continue to do as you please. I would encourage you to look at other tanks as well. For instance, Darksend's feral guide does say that the 22 stamina is a good enchant for boots, however he himself uses Tuskarr's Vitality, an "acceptable alternative". Why? Don't be afraid to ask these questions.
Last edited by Quinafoi; 07-26-2010 at 04:22 PM.

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1 stam = 12,5 hp in bearform.
2 stam = 25 hp in bearform

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Originally Posted by jakkes
1 stam = 12,5 hp in bearform.
2 stam = 25 hp in bearform
Read above, this is actually way off.
Buffs and talents interact with stats.

The actual modifier is 1.6353 (after rounding), not including the ICC buff.

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Originally Posted by geeksbsmrt
I haven't had a major issue with getting out of slime on PP. However, I have only been in the fight a few times. PUGs suck and the guild is not large enough/ geared enough to get there alone. I have not been to Sind or LK which is why I said it may be of use there. However, during the LM fights the tanks do not move. If they are targeted with Bone Storm the Cold Flame will tick one time while it is being dropped then stop ticking as it is spreading out. The ONLY time we move as tanks on LM is if there is a weird reset. I have always been the first to react to a bad reset on LM and have always been the first back into position.
Seeing as you haven't done LK (I don't mean to be rude), I'm going to assume that you're doing normal mode fights so I'll kind of explain the strat that many guilds use for H LM. For H LM most guild have 2 of their tanks run to opposite sides of the room with the raid in the center. This is because LM goes to person/group of people farthest from his current position. By doing this you control where he goes and reduce raid damage taken. The only bad part about is this strat is that 2 of the tanks are on opposite sides of the rooms and have to run to center ASAP. Something like Charge can help you move quickly, but with the size of Marrowgar's hitbox Charge is very lackluster (something like Intervening to another tank might work) Because you are likely charging into the back of his hit box and still have to run to his front side. Therefore a run speed enchant is very valuable in this scenario.

And just because you're the first to react doesn't mean that reacting faster is worthless.

Kiting oozes on Rotface is another scenario. And yes, some guilds have Feral Druids kite the oozes. I kited adds in my 10 man for 3 months on both normal and heroic. BQL's Air phase is another situation where being able to move quickly to get out of someones area is important. And tanking Keleseth in the BP fight. Yes, Feral druids can tank that too and being able to move 8% faster around the room to get an orb is very useful. I tanked Keleseth for 2 or 3 months in my 10 man while the pally tank tanked Tal and Val.

My point is, there are plenty of situations to warrant having the enchant. The ONLY tanking class that I could MAYBE see getting away without using it is a warrior tank that knows how to use all of his Charges. Or a Pally with Pursuit Of Justice (not in every pally spec).

Again, sorry if my first sentence seemed rude ^.^
Last edited by Gape; 07-27-2010 at 03:05 PM.

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ok i notice almost everybody replying here is in favor of stacking stamina. and i agree its the easyest way to decide what to use as gems and it works apperently. thoug why would you need so mutch stamina? if i gem my gear to stamina i'm around 80k in icc wich is basicly just sitting there. gemming for more stats makes you a lot more usefull tank. couz of the amount of threat and damage you create and becouz the healers don't have to heal you that mutch. i think avoiding dmg is always better as being able to soak the dmg up.

atm i'm walking around in icc with around 60k hp and thats enough to be able to tank LK25 HC. i don't use full stamina gems exept on the blue sockets ofc. (o yea and don't use the gemming i use as an example atm since i'm trying out a crit build as druid tank )