Help! Rogue Gear / Profession advice!
So currently I have gotten the hang of playing as a rogue. I know what stats to go for, what gems, enchants, weapons, etc. But currently, I find myself in a pickle. Here is my armory link -> http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...holdt&cn=Hakan
Basically I got these new pants tonight, which replaced some 251 pants in ICC 10 man. I see a lot of rogues with the sanctified leggings though, is it truly better? I mean I am expertise capped, and this thing has some good AP with the gem slots.
Along with that, as you can see from the link I am a miner. I was thinking of going engineering in place of mining. Is that a good choice?
One last thing. I know many rogues eventually find the same speed daggers and use the stronger one as MH. If they are both the same speed, is it still Instant on MH, deadly OH?
Engineering is great on my rogue. The glove enchant with the haste bonus is outstanding (especially for Mut spec) and the rocket boots are fun; the parachute on the cloak is also fun, plus it's a nice stat bonus (I think it's agility but, I always forget if it's agility or haste).
As far as those leggings, I would compare them one for one with your other ones. If they are an upgrade, use them. The reason you see a lot of rogues with the Sanct leggings is because of the set bonus... The 2P bonus is friggin' sexy, especially if you're swapping ToT's with another rogue. AP bonus and 15 energy for free on each cooldown... I can't speak for the 4P as I don't have it yet on my Rogue.
I'm not going to speak on the daggers/poison combination, because mine is apparently a bit different from the norm (although I've never been out DPS'd by a rogue with an even close to similar gear set). All i'd say for that is to check over at Elitistjerks.com and check their numbers/stat sheets.
Thanks buddy, the advice is appreciated. The reason I asked about the leggings is I understand the reason to go for the set bonus. But many rogues get more then 3 pieces perhaps besides the chest (the one I have is best in slot, so t10 isn't needed). So is it actually better if you have a JC who can put in two 68 AP gems?
Originally Posted by JokerFMJ
Bump! Sorry - What I am really wondering is: Is the 4 set bonus worth it? I'd think it is, 13% doesn't seem like that big of a deal but with how fast mutilate rogues attack, I'd think it would proc nicely. What do you all think?
As sad as it sounds, the only real way to check what's an upgrade or not is to use one of the simulation spreadsheets out there. Adrianna has a very good one for Mutilate here. General rule of thumb is this (but consult the spreadsheet for exact information). You definitely want the 2pc bonus (and use it on cooldown) without question - it's ~400EP for most rogues. The 4pc bonus is ~80-90EP. When it comes to the 4pc, the stats on ilvl 264 items will generally outweigh the bonus from 4pc T10.
4pc T10.5 > 2pc T10.5 + ilvl 264 > 4pc T10
The nice thing about the T10.5 legs is that with Ikfirus' Sack of Wonder, you're only a single JC gem away from expertise cap. Check out my rogue (armory link) to see the numbers for yourself. You're picking up a lot of expertise from your cloak and belt, which you'll eventually want to upgrade. As Mutilate, you'll have to pick up the expertise somewhere, and the easiest place to do that is in the T10/10.5 legs. The one offpiece for you should always be using is Ikfirus' Sack of Wonder (which you already have). The only thing you replace that with is Heroic Ikfirus' Sack of Wonder.
Even if you're clipping envenom, a finisher without having to spend the energy to build the combo points is a DPS increase. There's not much debate about that. 4pc is better than no 4pc (ilvl being equal).
Weapons and poisons:
- You want at least one fast weapon. Slow/fast and fast/fast are both ok - slow/slow is NOT
- Highest DPS weapon goes in the MH
- Deadly poison on the fastest weapon (MH if both are the same speed), instant on the other
@JokerFMJ - if you're using a different setup than the above, you're probably just gimping your DPS. Using other rogues as a benchmark is pretty silly, since many players simply don't know how to press the right buttons at the right time.
If you're looking for a one-stop source of information regarding the numbers for a rogue, check The Rogue Pocket Guide at EJ. They've got a breakdown of all the different profession bonuses and EP values of the different trinkets. Based on what you've got and the numbers, I would recomment picking up Herkuml War Token with your next 60 frost badges. It's 3rd BiS, and the only place you'll find better is out of ICC10H and ICC25H.
*NOTE* - All the above is information for Assassination spec. Combat rogues are a whole other ball game, and they choose their gear very differently.
Last edited by Zxian; 07-19-2010 at 10:49 AM.
I follow what you said above and read EJ for DPS advice. it has helped out dramatically. The reason I say it's different is because I'm always approaches by people who say I'm doing it wrong and the I out DPS them and they have an excuse... Your advice seemed right on the money to me!
Zxian, your advice is widely appreciated and I thank you for it. If you or any others though could help me with one last problem, my mind will be at ease. Currently I got my engineering up and am facing some problems. I know that AP + Haste is the best for a mutilate rogue, but I'm confused with some enchants here. Is the haste buff you add to gloves from engineering better then the passive 44 AP? Or is the rocket better for added damage? (I'd think not) Also, is the 32 AP to the boots better then the speed buff, or not? I could see it being better for situational fights, but not overall. What do you all think?
Check the EJ Pocket guide for all your enchanting needs (it's a little ways down the page). The only one that's up for debate is the boots, which should always be Icewalker (not 32AP) even if you're over the poison hit cap. The EP gains from 12hit/12crit are much higher than 32 (usually run about 40-42 on my rogue in the spreadsheet).
You can substitute Icewalker for the Nitro boots if you feel the need for extra mobility once every 3 minutes. On a standstill fight (i.e. saurfang, Marrowgar, BQL), the Nitro boots are a DPS loss compared to Icewalker. However, if you're switching targets and the boots let you get to your target faster, they may be a DPS upgrade. It's something you'll have to decide for yourself.
You can get a rough estimate of the value of the eng glove enchants with some simple math.
340haste *12sec/60sec = 68 haste (average)
68 haste is much better than 44AP. The only thing you have to do is remember to use them on EVERY cooldown, just like TotT.
So I currently went with what you suggested, feel free to go back up and click my armory link to make sure I got everything set up alright.
Looks pretty good, although you'll want to drop some of that expertise. You only need 214 rating (or 26) in order to never be dodged. The value of expertise once you're past the cap is zero, so it's wasted itemization. If you've got access to another belt and cloak, go ahead and replace those.
I know about the expertise bit, can't help that it just came with the items. Is the boots that drop off of 25 man marrowgar better then the craftable ones then? And currently I am attempting to replace the belt / cloak.
If you've got the marrowgar boots, use them.
Your best source of 'is X better than Y' answers is the spreadsheets provided at EJ. Download it, input all your gear, and then save it on your hard drive. The sheets aren't going to change much until Cata comes out.
Sorry to chime in on a thread late (Got back from ComicCon) that's already very informative, but another resource to check out would be the iDPS Java applet that does the same thing as the Rogue Spreadsheets if not better. All you need to run it is Java and you can just import your character instead of punching in gear everytime.
Got something to ask upon once again. Deathbringer's Will VERSUS Whispering Fanged Skull. Which is better for Mutilate spec? I myself would think that the skull would be better since the pocket guide also says this, but the chance to get more haste + AP seems to convince me otherwise. What do you guys think?
The numbers that have been crunched don't lie. DBW is a chance of getting a really good stat or a less than stellar stat, which can easily push you over the crit cap as well, which means that you have to gem extra hit just to make the trinket worth it's full potential.
TL;DR. WFS is better than DBW for Mutilate. DBW is better than WFS for Combat.
Unless you've got a really good reason (and by good reason, I mean valid evidence) that the information posted on EJ is incorrect, just follow the guide. There are many people who have worked to validate the findings there.