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Thread: What do you think are the best and worst starting abilities for each tree?

  1. #1
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    What do you think are the best and worst starting abilities for each tree?

    http://cata.wowhead.com/talent

    Personally, I think Fire Mages starting with Pyroblast is a bit silly, as you're only really supposed to use it once you get the Hot Streak talent which you wouldn't get until around level 40 or so.

    On the other hand, I think Prot Paladins starting with Avengers shield will make a huge influx of leveling Paladin tanks.

    What are your thoughts?
    Last edited by Terae; 07-18-2010 at 04:45 AM. Reason: typo

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    We used Pyroblast long before Hot Streak, which is a talent added in Wrath of the Lich King. :P

    You use it as the opener, as simple as that. (Also to break Polymorphs, for instance.)

    Don't know what's the best so far, though. They all seem more or less the same. Well, maybe Retribution starting with Divine Storm seems a bit... overtuned, but paladins aren't near done yet, so... *shrug*
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  3. #3
    mortal strike at 10 seems kinda fun, with bloodthirst tho fury might be pretty good for lvling due to the self heals.

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    Worst? Desperate Prayer for Holy Priests so far takes the cake for worst. I would've gone w/ Chakra or GS [but then no one would take LW]. To be fair, Holy's unique "press able" talents [CoH, DP, and GS] are none too exciting to receive at level 10 as "spec defining." Chakra would've been perfect because it showcases the versatility of the Holy Priest. Just make LW a pre-req for either CoH or GS and people will still be "forced" to pick it up.

    Best? Penance for Disc Priests. The perfect example of a spec defining ability that helps you both level and perform your pvp & pve functions.
    Last edited by Spiritus; 07-18-2010 at 10:03 AM.



  5. #5
    IDK. 45s cooldown Desperate Prayer sounds like unkillability while levelling, a big deal in early instances when tanks have issues holding AE threat. Plus later on it heals osmeone else, too.
    But yeah, contests for worst. My personal favorite here is Felguard, they even said themselves before that they don't want to do that because then Demolocks lack all the experience how to use their various pets since there is no reason to.

    Best?
    Hrm, tricky. Either Thunderstorm or Pyroblast.
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  6. #6
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    I think earth shield is the best (for resto shammy) because its really what the class needs to become a versitile healer
    Desperate prayer for holy priest is one of the worst because as spiritus said it doesnt show the versatility of the class.
    I also think summon felguard for Demonology warlocks will be way too overpowered at level 10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norrath View Post
    We used Pyroblast long before Hot Streak, which is a talent added in Wrath of the Lich King. :P

    You use it as the opener, as simple as that. (Also to break Polymorphs, for instance.)

    Don't know what's the best so far, though. They all seem more or less the same. Well, maybe Retribution starting with Divine Storm seems a bit... overtuned, but paladins aren't near done yet, so... *shrug*
    You have a point... I only started my Mage during WotLK so that's why I wasn't aware of that. :P

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    I think it's interesting that warriors lost dual wielding as a base ability.
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  9. #9
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    Prot pally getting avenger shield is the best starting ability IMO; Its a defining ability, have utility rather than straight damage, and isn't something you can spam while leveling/questing. Along with the new holy power mechanic

    Mortal strike as a starting ability is a bit weak; Its got 0 synergy to any early arms talents and the debuff have been cut down.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martie View Post
    I think it's interesting that warriors lost dual wielding as a base ability.
    We never used it in any practical sense except as Fury. Granted, in Vanilla tanks not tanking would DW for slightly better damage/rage gen before a transition/duration of a fight. But that design flaw has been fixed by giving us useful abilities like Devastate and Shield Slam.

    Starsurge sounds potentially interesting.

    Summon Water Elemental, Shadowste, UA and Felguard sound like they will dominate the lvl 19 twink bracket.

    I find it odd that they would give us Anger Management as an Arms warrior. I never took it prior the past 5 years of WoW. Just seems odd they wouldn't rework it somehow.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terae View Post
    http://cata.wowhead.com/talent

    Personally, I think Fire Mages starting with Pyroblast is a bit silly, as you're only really supposed to use it once you get the Hot Streak talent which you wouldn't get until around level 40 or so.
    Yeah I foresee bad mages spamming pyro, that will be fun :P

  12. #12
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    Desperate Prayer is the worst by quite a large margin, IMO.

    Pyro has reasons for giving it to Fire only--which is why it's there--but it's not a very good level 10 ability.

    One may also wonder why Resto Shaman have a passive to decrease the cast time of their core heal but Priests have to waste 3 points to get the same thing--and wait until they completely fill out the tree for Disc.

    Tier 1 Darkness for Shadow Priests should really be part of the passive as well.

    I also wonder why only 1 'armor' is specific to a tree for Mages.
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    Desperate Prayer is also weak because it was the only instant direct heal for priests. It was nice to have as Disc, too. If you have the shield debuff on yourself the only instant you have that can heal yourself is HN. It could be also an interesting talent for shadow if they implemented it right. Since it is hard enough to get shadow to want something in holy anyway. So DP even if it will heal more in Cata is a bad idea for a tree defining ability. It does not define the tree, has a long CD for such a spell and is seldom used in the end anyway because the tree itself has many alternatives for it.

    I'm not sure which ability is the best. I don't know enough of some classes to discuss them. However I think the prot abilities of warrior and paladin are candidates.

  14. #14
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    2 important things to remember:
    1.) These were really clearly slapped together quickly. Most of the passive bonuses are barely placeholders. The spells very well may change, though maybe they are a little better than the passives.
    2.) Just because the familiar spell is there now does *not* mean that the spell will remain the same as it is now.


    Desperate Prayer, for example. At first I was ready to be on the "really, that's my iconic spell for Holy priest?" train, but then Blizz mentioned the rework. Instant cast, 45 sec CD, automatically heals the lowest health party/raid member for a percentage of the heal. Basically it makes it a smart, instant Binding Heal. Not amazing, but not the current Desperate Prayer, which I've generally been remiss to carry.
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  15. #15
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    I still don't really view that as something iconic for Holy Priests. I'd honestly say Binding Heal would have made a better choice than giving Desperate Prayer then making it more like Binding Heal. It's still a semi-weak long cooldown ability, not a bread-and-butter ability like basically every other core level 10 ability.

    I would also consider Prayer of Mending a possibility. Although Disc Priests wouldn't like it, they are getting Power Word: Barrier after all.

    Alternatively, if Blizzard feels so strongly about Lightwell... just make it the passive and strongarm everyone into getting it.
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    Lightwell was never a good spell. Ever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norrath View Post
    Lightwell was never a good spell. Ever.
    It was good for a laugh when it glitched and ended up waay up on the top of a column in Grobby's room.

    When lightwell in bad stuff, dps no go to lightwell.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norrath View Post
    Lightwell was never a good spell. Ever.
    People who don't understand the value of Lightwell make me sad.

    It was handicapped in BC, fixed in WotLK, but then when it was people stopped caring about smart play and everything went binary. "Why should I look after my own health, that's why we bring healers, right? That way I can stand in the fire and press 1121123 and do mad deeps!"

    You may learn, assuming the rest of the balance goes off well.
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  19. #19
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    Desperate Prayer.
    This spell sucks on so many levels, I wouldn't miss it if it was gone. It's instant, which is nice, but iconic? Just another instant healing spell(self only, longish CD).

    If something is iconic for holy priests then it's gotta be the Spirit of Redemption. Kill a priest, he goes into emergency angel mode and you KNOW that he was holy specced. Nothing says Holy Priest like this one.

    C'mon, it's not as if a Disc or, heaven forbid, a Shadow Priest would get that far into the Holy tree.

    Well, and then there is CoH.

    Desperate Prayer only says human priest. Well, or dwarven priest. But not Holy Priest.
    I can haz Starshards plx?

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  20. #20
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    I was thinking about that too, then I was thinking about what Blizz is looking for in this slot:
    1.) Active used spell (not passive proc, or not player triggered)
    2.) Meaningful for the Priest to feel like a Holy Priest at level 10.
    3.) Something you would use regularly from level 10.

    Obviously Fail Angel is iconic, but it is passive and useless if you're leveling. CoH is a great spell and something you might use more readily, though only in instances. Desperate Prayer is the only thing a Holy Priest could use for themselves and in a group, and have it feel Holy-y. It is kind of blah, but at least the reworked version is a way more interesting than the old one. The only other way to fill this slot would be to invent a new spell, or co-opt an existing one away from Discipline. I don't want to lose Prayer of Mending on my Disc priest, it is too pretty. =(
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

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