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Thread: getting the skeleton key

  1. #1
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    getting the skeleton key

    im currently at 55 frost badges.
    my armory : http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n=Honoriusvins

    i was tinking of buying the skeleton key first instead of the cloak as advised by most ppl as i i felt the need to replace my trinket ( they are blue and i nid to up my gs as all pugs look at gs )
    i felt the stamina increase will benefit me much more than if i replace the cloak.
    but is it still very recommended to change the frost for the cloak instead?

  2. #2
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    Your trinkets are pretty terrible for tanking, but you have two good replacements available to you: The Black Heart from ToC5 normal (farmable), and the Glyph of Indomitability from Triumph badges. Get those two and spend your frost badges on something other than the stamina trinket.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumines View Post
    Your trinkets are pretty terrible for tanking, but you have two good replacements available to you: The Black Heart from ToC5 normal (farmable), and the Glyph of Indomitability from Triumph badges. Get those two and spend your frost badges on something other than the stamina trinket.
    ^ agreed

    Kraken, Belt, Cataclysmic, CSK/Cloak (since you currently have the bonus armor holiday cloak), Tier Shoulders, Tier Helm. Would be my suggestion for the order.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  4. #4
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    Most people who give gear advice are not trying to get the GS or stamina to be looked at by PUGs. The cloak is often their #1 recommendation, as they know it is best in slot and a keeper. But that is not a priority consideration to a new tank. And you have the seasonal cloak, making the frost one much less of an upgrade than it would be to most newbies.

    I bought the CSK first and did not regret it. It will shoot up your stamina - which is what most PUGs look at - and you will pretty much never unequip it (I use it for ProtPvP and arena healing too). Get the black heart and glyph too, ofc, and swap between them depending on whether you want stamina or armour/gs.

    Your gloves, belt, cloak and chest are all pretty solid and good enough for starting ICC. You will want to get the replacements Loganisis recommends for them eventually, but with 55 frosties, I would follow your heart. The sooner you get into ICC, the faster you will get those other upgrades.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loganisis View Post
    ^ agreed

    Kraken, Belt, Cataclysmic, CSK/Cloak (since you currently have the bonus armor holiday cloak), Tier Shoulders, Tier Helm. Would be my suggestion for the order.

    Listen to this man right here. Get the 245 badge trinket and farm up black heart, buy the badge gloves and get yourself some pillars of might.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by theodisius View Post
    Most people who give gear advice are not trying to get the GS or stamina to be looked at by PUGs.
    i pugged icc10 mans on my dk and tanked 10/12 normal before having any frost badge gear or icc10 gear aside from the badge cloak. full 232 t9 with crafted tanking chest and bracers with some icc 5 man heroic gear and triumph badge trinket. you only "need" a 5k gs to tank icc10 and that's pretty much 232 gear with 245 crafted pieces.

    grab the gloves or chest or belt first and work from there, dont worry about lolgearscore
    -Jimmy

    |Ex Tank|

    TWITCH.TV STREAM


  7. #7
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    Imo the absolute best item you can get is the frost belt first. It's solid and will not ever be replaced and gives better stat increases than the cloak for your setup.

    If you do go for a 245 belt instead then get indestructible plate girlde crafted, it's pretty cheap and you can buy most of the crusader orbs needed for it with the emblems you'd use to buy the vendor belt.

    Though... I see you went ahead and bought CSK anyways...
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=50991
    ^ That would have been a much bigger/better upgrade for you, imo.

    As proof:
    Glyph of indom is worth ~162 stam worth of EHP. CSK = 228 stam for a gain of 66 stam worth of EHP.

    Your current belt is 1391 armor and 151 stam (not going to count the belt buckle since you can get that with both).
    The raw stam increase from Verdigris alone would be 60 stam from just the sockets + the 6 extra stam it has base (157 instead of 151). Therefore without even considering that it has 2143 armor instead of 1391 it is already the same level of upgrade AND you gain avoidance.

    However the armor difference is 752 armor which is about 68 stam worth of EHP.

    So really the difference between glyph of indominability and CSK vs. relentless PvP belt and verdigis is that verdigis is over twice the EHP upgrade from CSK.

    Even if you compare TBH vs CSK you're still talking about a 102 stam gain with the trinket choice vs. 134 stam worth of EHP with the belt.

    DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT compromise "omg I need high hit points to look goodz" or "omg I need Gearscore" to get into PuGs, if they won't take you because you made the right gearing choices then find another PuG. Tanks are in high demand and great tanks are few and far between. Following gearscore will make you a terrible player, especially as a tank where some of our better items have lower gearscore.
    Last edited by Aggathon; 07-15-2010 at 07:02 AM.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  8. #8
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    Can we get a new forum rule where if you mention gearscore you get an official warning?

    My advise would be that PuGs that are made following the gearscore addon are usually really bad pugs. I've made pugs plenty of times and never once used gearscore, instead just inspecting or armory'ing the players - where you can learn much more about how they will perform in a raid then any gear score addon.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passive View Post
    Can we get a new forum rule where if you mention gearscore you get an official warning?

    My advise would be that PuGs that are made following the gearscore addon are usually really bad pugs. I've made pugs plenty of times and never once used gearscore, instead just inspecting or armory'ing the players - where you can learn much more about how they will perform in a raid then any gear score addon.
    Better yet, can we get Blizzard to impliment a 24 hour ban for any [insert any weekly/ToC/ICC raid, but especially Naxx] LFM 5500 GS required spam? XD
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  10. #10
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    I've actually run several very successful pugs where all I say is "LFM ToC25... don't suck!"
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  11. #11
    LAWL GS, I was told I must be a noob if I don't know my GS when I volunteered to tank a TOC that was forming in trade out of boredom =(

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...%88xiledknight

    But to the OP, listen to Aggathon do not base your frost badge purchases off of GS it will ruin you as a tank, I still run ICC 10 weekly in hopes that one day Saurfang will drop his bracers and I can replace my 277s with 264s, if you have random peices here and there that you do use, then sure to get invited toss on whatever will give you the highest GS, but do not ever compromise or gear for it. As you can see you cannot base a pug off their GS rules, because I think I am geared enough to tank ToC 25. Get the belt next, hands down no matter what the cloak is a much smaller upgrade for you because of the cloak you already have.

  12. #12
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    I hate getting asked what my GS is to tank ToC when I'm the only prot warrior on the server with Grand Crusader/Insanity.

    Oh fun fact about that though, in my H-Anub25 set gearscore says I should barely be tanking Ulduar.

    Crusader's Glory - 245, and it's like 2nd BiS or something, might even be first, in terms of raw EHP.

    H-Band of the Twin Valks - 2nd BiS for raw EHP (I count both Devium Rings as one since you can only use 1 at a time)

    Ony25 Ring - pretty much the same as H-Band of the Twin Valks and depending on the situation it can actually be more EHP than B-Band of the twin valks b/c of the resists on it. Ilevel 245

    The lower ilevel bracers like exiled was talking about.

    Pillars of might are 264 and are more raw EHP than any of the 277 pants (though there are some circumstances to switch them out)

    Verdigis Chain belt - 264 and is by far BiS.

    Non prot warrior stuff: Holy pally libram, ilevel 200, BiS
    DMC:G - while not BiS, you have to get to like 258 trinkets before something is better iirc.
    Illustration of the Dragonsoul - again, this trinket is far better than most things until what, like death's choice? Maybe that 1 trinket out of ulduar is better, point is, it's an awesome trinket but is still really low level.

    I could go on, but point is. Gearscore is complete hogwash.
    Last edited by Aggathon; 07-15-2010 at 09:14 AM.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  13. #13
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    gs is pissing me off so bad.for the last 3 days i was spamming in trade all day asking for a "chance" to tank in icc. i read up the strat,watch the videos and had 35k unbuff crit cap yet they tink im bloody undergear. i might nt be geared however i doubt 5.8k gs is required. wads worse,they wan ach, hw the heck do i get ach when i cant even start ....

  14. #14
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    Move servers to one that doesn't run off GS

    I recently moved two toons to saurfang to help friends out with a small raiding guild and that server horde side lives and breaths GS and honestly they have more fail pugs than I have ever seen. I have also seen some of the worst gearing choices you could imagine on that server because most are selecting pieces purely on GS. I took real offense to one VOA group who booted a tank who was nicely turned out 39K HP correctly gemmed and chanted but only had a GS of 4.7K apparently you have to have 5K for VOA on saurfang. I left in protest as I don't want to run with retards who obviously know nothing about tanking yet are happy to kick someone based on what some flawed addon says.
    ** Remember Warcraft players fail in directions you never thought possible.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by geniuspear View Post
    gs is pissing me off so bad.for the last 3 days i was spamming in trade all day asking for a "chance" to tank in icc. i read up the strat,watch the videos and had 35k unbuff crit cap yet they tink im bloody undergear. i might nt be geared however i doubt 5.8k gs is required. wads worse,they wan ach, hw the heck do i get ach when i cant even start ....
    35k seems a bit undergeared, it's been so long since I have had a fresh 80 tank I cannot remember, one solution to your problem could be take the initiative and start your own group, it sounds like you are a bit undergeared(although the buff prob negates that) fact is pugs want a tank they know can stay alive if they end up with a bad healer. What I would reccommend is first look at your gear objectively and if its not mostly toc level, or an older item with more EH, than you prob are undergeared and should run the ICC 5 man heroics and try to get into a toc 10/25. One thing with tanks is our gear does come heavily into play moreso than a dps, our skill does not allow us to survive an extra punch to the face. Start your own group or take a real look at your gear(or even post an armory link in the halp section so we can look at it for you) are going to be your two best choices, complaints about gs will get you no where, and you will run into instances where it can be frustrating just find ways to work around it.

  16. #16
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    I'm going to be completely honest Geniuspear, if I was looking for a tank and you PM'd me and I armoried you, I would not take you. Gearscore or how many HPs you currently have would have nothing to do with it. That hit trinket and your spec would though. Take a look at the guide in my sig (stickied at the top of this page).

    Knowledge is power, and knowing how to work with a lower gearscore can make you outperform people 2-3 teirs above you, which I see all the time.

    Helm - Take out the +defense gem here, replace it with a +10def/+15stam gem (15 stam gain)

    Shoulders - There's no need to hit this socket bonus and you should never try to hit a socket bonus with anything except a hybrid gem that is half stam. replace this gem with a 30 stam gem (30 stam gain)

    Cloak - Replace this defense enchant with 225 armor (225 armor gain).

    Quick interjection before I continue though, while you may be saying "but I'm going to go under 540 defense!" While true, you are also currently using some PvP gear that will keep you crit immune and when/if you replace it you will get items with defense to make that crit immunity up. Crit immunity in raids is 5.6%, so add the % chance not to be crit from defense and the % chance not to be crit from resil and if it's over 5.6% then you're savvy.

    Chest - Excellent selection and that's the correct enchant, but you should only go after +9stam bonuses or higher and then only if they only require 1 hybrid gem. If you gem that BP with 3x30 stam gems you get 90 stam vs. the 15+15+30+12 = 72 stam you get there (18 stam gain)

    Bracers - Drop the defense gem again and toss in a +30 stam gem (24 stam gain)

    Rimfangs - Get that enchant with blood draining

    Shield - Enchant with 18 stam (18 stam gain)

    Trinkets - replacing the sphere needs to be your #1 priority. I would suggest glyph of indomitability (45 emblems of triumph) or The Black Heart (farmable from ToC5 normal, not hardmode).

    Boots - these simply need to be replaced ASAP, which is why I'm guessing you haven't gemmed/enchanted them. I would suggest getting http://www.wowhead.com/item=45560 crafted. They are pretty good boots and will last you quite a while tbh. There's also some that drop in one of the ICC5 mans. If you get those crafted, gemmed with 2x 30 stam gems and enchanted with Tuskarr's Vitality then you would gain 98 stam with just this chain (98 stam gain)

    Legs - Fine for now, but if you can get the money I would HIGHLY suggest getting Pillars of Might crafted if possible. Gem with 3x30 stam gems if you do get them.

    Belt - If you are close to 60 emblems of frost again then get the verdigis chain belt, as I said in the post above that's a 752 armor gain and a 66 stam gain. If you aren't close and want a better belt faster, then I'd suggest getting http://www.wowhead.com/item=45551. Gemming it with 1x10 dodge/15 stam gem 2x30 stam gems (1 from belt buckle) would only be a 12 stam increase, but you'd gain some avoidance which would be good.

    Gloves - Enchant with 18 stam, change the gem to a +30 stam gem (42 stam gain)

    If you level your blacksmithing then you can gain another 60 stam from the extra sockets.

    All of this is possible without any raiding. Not counting Pillars of Might if you make them and if you get Verdigis Chain Belt next instead of crafting the girdle and get glyph of indom this is a total of:
    371 Stamina
    2769 armor which is the EHP equivalent of about 251 more stam.
    Total: 622 more stam worth of EHP

    371x10x1.09x1.1= 4448 more hit points with kings or 4043 hit points unbuffed which would put you just shy of 40k unbuffed.
    In ICC (buffed) this is currently 5560 more hit points.

    And NONE of this requires ANY raiding, just instances (though if you can get into raids where frost emblems drop you can get the Verdigis chain belt faster, but technically it can be done with just dailies).
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  17. #17
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    I was in a similar situation to you not too long ago. I was tossing up between the key (for the stamina), but in the end decided that the 264 frosties belt was a better option, long and short term. I farmed the Black Heart from Normal ToC and grabbed the glyph of indomitability using triumphs (which you can collect relatively quickly when queuing for randoms as a tank).

  18. #18
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    Man with fantastic options out there like the Glyph and TBH available for essentially free CSK was that absolute LAST thing I bought on both my Warrior and Druid tanks and I seriously considered getting my offsets first before going there on either. Honestly don't let GS or PuG-group retardation scare you off in the future ... there are too many amazing upgrades available that have horrible GS values.

  19. #19
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    I actually got my Black Hart from ToC5 Heroic, that was after goin through non-heroic multiple times.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoutale View Post
    I actually got my Black Hart from ToC5 Heroic, that was after goin through non-heroic multiple times.
    No you didn't.

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