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Thread: Our prot war keeps dying

  1. #21
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    Ahh cool, thanks for the correction/help Insahnity!

    Ya neither healana or I have see the sliver drop *sadface*.

    But point of contention: If you have enough MP5 that you don't run out of mana casting holy light and the choice is between crit and MP5, why wouldn't you take crit?

    Edit: I can see taking other stats over crit (SP, haste if not haste capped), I'm just saying if it's between MP5 and crit.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    Ahh cool, thanks for the correction/help Insahnity!

    Ya neither healana or I have see the sliver drop *sadface*.

    But point of contention: If you have enough MP5 that you don't run out of mana casting holy light and the choice is between crit and MP5, why wouldn't you take crit?
    No Amount of Holy Light can be sustained on MP5, we can go all day because we DP. And when we DP, we get 30% less heals, but HL is probably already overhealing anyways. The amount that is healed is less of an issue than the TIMING, which you are keenly aware of, and that is probably what makes Healana a great healer. If you spec into crit, you get some mana back refunded, but even if you were to crit cap and sustain say 2/3 of your heals of your heals as crits, post illumination nerf you will get more back from MP5. The crits are throughput sure, but probably overheals.

  3. #23
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    Fair enough.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    3rd: on the BQL fight itself if you look under buffs gained for mutedsilence, beacon of light is NOT ON THERE AT ALL. He also doesn't receive a single heal from beacon of light. It looks like the pally actually put beacon of light on himself. This is bad.
    He was keeping Beacon up on the pally tank, "Sihune", and healing the warrior tank/raid. Any time your holy pally threw a heal elswhere, which he frequently does, the pally tank would still get a beacon heal, while the warrior got nothing. This is why the warrior would "seem" to take more damage.

    An int gemmed holy pally should be casting nothing but holy light. If he's running into mana issues, the iLVL 200 libram that reduces the mana cost of HL is still the best libram for a HL spammer.

    My observation is that your holy pally needs to cast holy light more and stay focused on his healing targets.

  5. #25
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    Yes, this is a pretty hard lesson for healers to learn in raids. If you are a tank healer, most especially hard modes, DO NOT RAID HEAL. Let the DPS die. Let the other healers die. If your tank dies due to lack of heals, it's your fault, even if you saved a healer or your top DPS. We can fix gear and specs, but healer focus is as big of an issue as improper tank rotation causing threat issues or whatnot. If you start healing the raid, people blame the tank for being squishy, or the more likely scenario, you are hiding a bad raid healer or DPS who is standing in fire/poison/void/etc.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akeber View Post
    He was keeping Beacon up on the pally tank, "Sihune", and healing the warrior tank/raid. Any time your holy pally threw a heal elswhere, which he frequently does, the pally tank would still get a beacon heal, while the warrior got nothing. This is why the warrior would "seem" to take more damage.

    I see. and for most boss fights I would agree that that is the appropriate course of action especially since glyph of holy light splashes transfer to the beacon. For BQL on the other hand beacon on the OT/Healing the MT makes tank healing trivial... so... basically what Insahnity said and

    My observation is that your holy pally needs to cast holy light more and stay focused on his healing targets.
    ^ This
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    Your pally MT has the same flaw as your warrior in that it seems like he went for pieces of convience in a lot of places. He really should NOT be using 5pc T10 (or even 4pc probably) and needs to drop his legs for Pillars of Might. He also needs to pick up the frost belt and frost cape. The damage your MT takes correlates much more to how much damage the OT takes than the OT himself on BQL.
    being a prot pala nerd I clicked the MTs armory and would like to point out a few things regarding his EH, which relates to this quote.

    Besides the fact that he is 5/5 t10, which is abit strange to me, his gloves and shoulders could be chanted for more stamina, the hodir chant he uses on his shoulders is inferior the the resil/stam chant in this case, and he could get 18 more stam on his gloves.

    Going along with what was said earlier, the crafted legs (pillars of might), frost badge cloak and belt on your tanks will make a world of difference on the damage your healers have to deal with

  8. #28
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    There is a lot of good advice in this thread, but I would definitely be wary of saying "never use Flash of Light for tank healing". The HoT is worth keeping up in many situations, even if it's not a core heal. Even better that you have a Paladin tank - Holy Pally can SS the Warrior, Prot Pally keeps SS on himself, and then you can have FoL HoTs rolling on both tanks at once.

  9. #29
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    I've heard that if you go HL spec the FoL HoT isn't worth it, but I suppose that probably depends on encounter/gearlevel/raid comp/etc. As you can see from the WoL post Golijov only casted FoL 3 times in about 3 and a half minutes.

    Either way FoL shouldn't be more than HL I suspect.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    I've heard that if you go HL spec the FoL HoT isn't worth it
    More or less true and I think gear level only matters if you're talking pre-naxx.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  11. #31
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    Yes i believe it's been shown that the FoL Hot isn't worth the global CD. Although this assumes solid chaincasting of holylight.

    Regarding all the above problems, a paladin that doesn't use beacon sounds like a much bigger problem than a tank that is geared ok if not exceptionally. I mean lets face it, with the current buff level tank eh should no longer be an issue.

  12. #32
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    Well as another poster stated when I looked back through the logs, the pally was using Beacon and it did have ~93.7% uptime iirc, but that was on the MT in this scenario, not the OT with the pally healing the MT. On most boss fights you do want beacon on MT because you can kind of raid heal and get HL splashes and it heals the MT for even more, but BQL is a different story.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  13. #33
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    The only time you FoL a tank is if you have absolutely nothing to do (which is rare, since if you arent healing you should be doing other stuff like refreshing judgement haste buff, DP, refresh SS/Beacon on your target, etc.). Yes, the FoL has a minimal value at best but its pretty lackluster compared to the HoTs of every other class. If you are chain casting HL every CD the heals should be timely, which is more important. The only possible argument is a moving fight, and you just have to accept that the HoT and Holy Nova is all you have, in addition to possible trinket effects.

  14. #34
    Honestly this just come's down to a tanks poor use of his cooldowns and knowing when he/she is in trouble to use them. Enraged Regeneration + Bloodrage for 4 piece / Or use it with Shield Wall.

    Also good to macro SS with SB so it is up no matter what every cooldown.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by towelliee View Post
    Also good to macro SS with SB so it is up no matter what every cooldown.
    I completely disagree with this and highly advise against it. SB is a powerful cooldown and you should use it WHEN YOU NEED IT, not just get it up whenever it's up.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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