Raiding Woes QQ

[Namaandra]

Where to begin,

We are a relatively small guild, around 90 members or so. We consider ourselves a casual laid back raiding guild, although I'm beginning to feel that casual raiding is an oxymoron. Up until a few weeks ago we had 2 10 man groups that run ICC weekly, both groups have downed The Lich King, an achievement that I am pretty proud of. We have also collectively defeated Halion 10man.

Here is the problem, or plethora of....
There is a constant whine about no one being able to run 25 man content. I put 25 man events up, 17 ppl sign up and 7 ppl shows. So the next week, I put it up again with the stipulation DO NOT SIGN UP UNLESS YOU PLAN TO BE HERE. So instead of 17 signing up, I get 3 signups and 14 tentative. :-( There is more of a hooray for me, F everyone else feeling attitude. Instead of raiding as a guild, several members just jump in the first PUG they can get to on noon tuesday.

On top of this, recently there was a blowup in one of the 10 man groups that left a 3 person hole. We have been reduced to pretty much running 1 ten man group per week and 1 7 man + 3 pug. I am finding it literally impossible to successfully PUG ICC10 HM every week, it is summertime and recruiting is pretty much nonexistent.. And if that not bad enough, it seems that out of the 7 left in the one group, that as many as 3 of them are losing interest, distracted or just flat out don’t want to be there..

What should I do? Disband the one struggling group and start from scratch? Kick everyone from the guild that doesn’t want to raid and sit in the guild alone? Take a break from raiding altogether? I want to experience hard modes, I want 25 man content. I WANT TO RAID GODDAMIT!!!!

We are 6/12 on hard modes 10 man ICC....

Last night we wiped on heroic Marrowgar for 2 hours... (nuff said)

[Mr.Winkle]

Well for a start if you have 90 active members then that isn't a small guild. My guild is small we have about 12 active members and raid 10man icc.

With 90 members but only 2 10man raid groups what do the other 70 members do? It sounds like you have a guild membership with mixed prioritys. One solution to this is to do as suggested, and kick all non-raiders. The alternative is to have 2 seperate ranks, raider and non-raider and actively set out the terms for being a raider.

One of my first terms would be "only raid with the guild". If you're actively trying to run 25man raids but guild members are pugging instead you need to stop this.

If peope are eager to raid 25s on Tuesdays set your 25man for teusday and run it with whoever shows, even if this means pugging the remainder of the raid.

Regarding your 2nd 10man raid group, i really don't understand how you can't replace the 3 people who left from within your own guild.

[Grannos]

One way you can handle this is to pick a few "active members" and take time to help them get geared. If that means taking a few nights a week, and doing 5man randoms with them as a guild, so they can get enough upgrades to start filling in holes in your 10 mans, then do it. One problem I have found is that once a guild starts to run 10 and 25 man raids, that a lot of the other members, who may be a little behind, get ignored. This is not always the case, but it is the case a lot of the time.

So, as i stated, help get your other members geared. Even those that cannot dedicate every raid night, but are willing to fill in here and there if needed. This will prevent pugs, and give other members something to strive towards. I can speak from experience. Why be in a guild, if you have to PUG everthing to get enough gear to be excepted as a raid member. That sort of defeats the purpose of joining a guild, does it not?

[Goros]

You can also change your loot system to penalize people who sign up but don't show, and that rewards people for showing. (I personally hate DKP, but love suicide kings).

[Errvalunia]

I would definitely say if your members are impatient enough to pug icc 25 right when servers come back up, they WANT to do it and don't believe the guild will give them a chance (as it looks like the guild hasn't been). I would say Tuesday nights should be a guild run of ICC 25 and pug all the remaining slots.

Also, 90 people is definitely not small. And again, where are the other 70 people? Playing PvP? Questing? Acchievementing?

[Insahnity]

I hope when you said 90 members, it wasn't what the guild tab is reporting. I used to be in a guild of 100 or so, with everybody owning at lof of alts. In truth there were only like 15-20 real people.