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Thread: Shaman What do you do after haste and crit capped?

  1. #1
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    Shaman What do you do after haste and crit capped?

    This is more of a just curious question for Shaman that have reached the soft cap for haste and crit.

    There seems to be a lack of testing out there to judge the benifit of haste after reaching the soft cap (1249).

    So once you have reached that soft cap do you continue to gem haste or do you start dropping in spell power gems?

    I my self change gear a lot depending on the fight also for 10 vs. 25 man raids. I will also swap out glyphs depending on what I assign my self to heal. My current haste 1292 Crit 39% Mp5 not an issue generally and Spell power is 3378.

    So question is more haste more more spell power which will you see a bigger benefit from?

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&cn=Bignsmelly
    Last edited by bignsmelly; 07-07-2010 at 10:25 PM.

  2. #2
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    I am guessing there is a lack of quality Resto shamans reading tank spots healing forums I notice that there is even a lack of a Shaman guide guess it's a little late to address this but some one should take up the responsibility going forward. If my ability to write wasn't so bad I could but it is so I am not the best choice.

    I did hear once Aliena plays a resto shaman and writes good guides.

  3. #3
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    With Cataclsym around the corner, I think writing a guide would be a fruitless endeavor. My Holy Pally guide came in sort of late as it is. But hopefully we'll see some good shammy info come Cataclysm!

  4. #4
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    Understanding throughput in general is a concept that will apply going forward into the next expansion as well, though not necessarily in the same form.

    As a healer you have four throughput stats, and the potential of a fifth through talents (if you have talents which make Spirit a throughput stat, not the case for Shaman).

    Your four stats (for throughput) you care about are...

    Spellpower, no functional limit, linear growth rate indefinately.
    Haste, soft and hard capped.
    Crit, soft and hard capped.
    Intellect, converts to crit at a low conversion rate.

    Those are your throughput stats which will effect your HPS.

    The general rules for healers tend to follow this.

    Haste (Below Soft Caps) > Spellpower > Crit (Below Soft Caps) > Haste (Above Soft Caps) > Crit (Above Soft Caps) > Intellect

    Most healers will fall into this general pattern as far as throughput is concerned. Please note this doesn't take into account any concerns about efficiency (this is approaching healing like a DPS would, I don't care about efficiency, just want as much as possible in the least time). Crit and Intellect are probably higher in priority because of their value to you as an efficiency stat.

    To answer your question, if you're above both crit and haste soft caps for your abilities, the maximum throughput can be reached by going for straight spellpower.

    This is coming from a balance druid who would heal on dreamwalker in balance gear to have significantly higher crit. Dreamwalker is the proverbial case where a healer cares most about throughput and least about efficiency.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  5. #5
    SP all the way baby sp is also more efficient for your mana per hp.
    Looking at the cata changes, spell power will probably be the stronger stat for a shaman. But cata is only in beta and things might change.
    (assuming haste and critt soft cap from gear)
    And yes it is to late for a wotlk shamman guide.
    + there doesnt seem to be manny shammys that are active on the forums. (the closest I normaly get to having somone to discus with is wartotem (wich isnt playing hes shammy as much annymore and sadly we are both from the same realm that is a realy shitt realm)
    When cata comes out Im planing on (have allready started) making a guide for my guild forums if they turn out well Ill contribute it here.

  6. #6
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    Haha, not if I beat you to it Mmiz :P
    Haven't played much recently due to exams & general "AMG summer, so much to do!!!" stuff, but am planning on being a total addict again the first few months of Cata!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
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  7. #7
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    Keep stacking haste and don't even consider any other stat. Save some combat logs of your ICC raids and run shaman_hep over them - this will tell you your stat weighting based on your actual play, but the answer will be to gem pure haste in everything.

    You could swap out glyphs depending on whether you're doing 10man or 25man but personally I stay glyphed for 25man because I'm lazy and just rely on being overgeared from 25man gear.

  8. #8
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    You realize this is after they have hit their softcap on haste? Haste will only benefit a portion of their spells. Spellpower is the highest throughput stat once soft capped on haste.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  9. #9
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    I'm also above the soft haste cap and I'm still getting 1 Haste = 2.5 to 2.75 SP. I'm confident that if you ran shaman_hep over your own ICC combat logs you would see similar results.

    I guess I'm putting a degree of trust in shaman_hep being accurate, but it's been the cornerstone of endgame Resto Shaman theorycrafting for a while now so there's no reason to distrust its calculated results.

    EDIT: FWIW, I gear for ICC25 not ICC10 and so I only run my parses on those. I guess it's possible you'll get different results from ICC10 parses, where CH usage is much lower, but still usually 40+% of healing done.

  10. #10
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    My soft cap on haste is 401. If all I do is cast Starfire and ignore everything else, haste is my best stat. And functionally, this soft cap no longer applies. If you choose not to use the abilities which define your cap, then it isn't really a cap.

    The abilities you use determine your soft cap, and varried tiers of capping that may occur.

    Your actual play style determines the impact of that cap on your actual results.

    For instance, if you have 90% or your healing you use that have 2 second cast times, and 10% has a 1.5 second cast time. When that 1.5 second cast time reaches the GCD minimum of 1 second, that ability ceases to benefit haste. So now instead of haste increasing your throughput of 100% of your healing, it now increases the throughput of 90% of your healing. How much this difference is determines how much benefit of haste is lost at each tier. If you were instead 50% 2 second casts and 50% 1.5 second casts, then haste would depreciate significantly more when you hit that cap.

    For a healer, it is harder to measure actual throughput because there isn't as clear a definition of style used. For instance a druid healing Dreamwalker would probably never bother with Wild Growth because it wouldn't be worth casting since Nourish is higher single target throughput. Because of the context, their methods change. One could say that this is the wrong playing style for a druid cause they have higher throughput as a raid healer and using Wild Growth, but just because something is optimal doesn't mean it applies all the time either.

    Depending on your style of play, the haste soft cap will impact you differently.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  11. #11
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    Quinafoi, Everything you say is true and valid - I have to admit, I'm not sure if you're disagreeing with me, agreeing with me or talking about something else!

    My point is that shaman_hep takes your own combat logs, which are therefore 100% based on your own playstyle, and determines your own, personal HEP values. It will therefore be the most accurate way to determine how your different stats benefit you.

    That said, most shamans healing 25man ICC content (especially HM, but even in normal) will use Chain Heal as a primary heal (which doesn't get haste capped), with very very rare exceptions. Thus, it's normally pretty safe to use the "standard" HEP values of 1 haste = 2.5 SP, which makes Haste the most valuable stat.

    As an aside, the only fights in normal ICC where CH is not your most cast heal are LDW Phase 1 only, Gunship, Saurfang, Festergut and VDW. When you consider HM, only Festergut and VDW are non-CH fights. So you could build separate sets for those two fights, but IMO it's not really worth it when they are not the hardest fights in the raid.

    EDIT: Added spacing, which got lost somehow

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