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Thread: TTW/Fire Mage Guide

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Xodiv View Post
    Heroic Presence no longer provides a hit buff to party/raid members.
    Well that's crappy. I wonder why I haven't missed at all on a dummy at 16% though? I used to miss pretty frequently, but I recorded various dps tests in SW and IF (like a couple hours worth of them) comparing mastery to haste reforging and didn't see one miss. Might just have been lucky.

    Yes my armory (and most other mages armory) seems to be broken since the patch, because I'm not wearing half that gear anymore as I changed stuff out for fire (it was my arcane set).

    Anyway, unless you can get OVER 45% crit, your crit from 20-45% basically has the same impact on your dps, you won't see any changes or benefit unless you go over 45, and well over at that.

    Because of the new way haste works for mages, our DoTs last the same amount of time, but can tick more often before ending. Haste is your friend in fire now more than ever. The trick comes in balancing your hit and haste, and figuring out if mastery is worth anything to you or not.

    Yes it increases your DoT damage by x%, but in my tests so far, it seems very close to the dps output you'd see in reforging to haste where you could and leaving the rest alone.

    I'll find a good answer eventually, but the setups I was testing (I'll make a video demonstrating later this week) were: 3811 SP, 32.02% Haste, 16.2% Hit, 44.59% Crit, Mastery 8 (6202GS). Second one was 3811 SP, 26.59% Haste, 39.10% Crit, 16.05% Hit Mastery 17.17 (6202GS)

    In SW where there are multiple dummies taking splash damage, the dps from haste was around 11k where the mastery dps was over 13k. In ironforge (where only 1 dummy takes damage), both seem to sit in the 9.9k-10.5k (using all cd's as well as running OOM on each test, for a true reading).

    I have run multiple tests with the same gear setup in the same location to mitigate RNG issues between gear choices, and fraps'd them all. I'm probably over an hour worth of video at this point.

    Cry Havoc! And let slip the Ghosts of War..


  2. #82
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    Anyway, unless you can get OVER 45% crit, your crit from 20-45% basically has the same impact on your dps, you won't see any changes or benefit unless you go over 45, and well over at that.
    Why?
    with 20% you have chance that every 5. spell will be a crit. with 45% every second..
    i see in your talents that you dont have improved fire blast talent. i dont understand. anytime i cas a fire blast its a crit and when i cast it ater a fireball crit i have a hot streak. i thought fire is about hot streak and crits bcs pyroblast is a massive dmg. if its a crit its massive massive dmg..then you cast a fire blast and you have hot streak again.

    maybe its true...: crit to haste..the only way how to know is try it

  3. #83
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    ok. i reforged everything to haste..only 0.1sec+casting time of fireball..and i have done many more dmg and dps with arcane..damn it
    btw same dps with fire as previously

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Potvora View Post
    Why?
    with 20% you have chance that every 5. spell will be a crit. with 45% every second..
    It's not a linear increase in change like you seem to think it is. There's a point where your t3 and t4 hotstreak talents intersect and crit becomes more or less useful depending on where you sit on this sliding scale. Here is the link: http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t104767-...2/#post1766032

    i see in your talents that you dont have improved fire blast talent. i dont understand. anytime i cas a fire blast its a crit and when i cast it ater a fireball crit i have a hot streak. i thought fire is about hot streak and crits bcs pyroblast is a massive dmg. if its a crit its massive massive dmg..then you cast a fire blast and you have hot streak again.
    I have 1 point in it, but the fact of the matter is that the benefit of having 3 points in piercing ice and 2 in netherwind presence outweigh a second point in fire blast. Once we hit 85, it will change as you will be able to go 3/3 in netherwind and 2/2 in fire blast.

    Fire blast however is a straight DPS loss even on a crit, as is spamming scorch to trigger a pyro. Currently (according to best testing) the highest DPS rotation for fire is Scorch, LB, FB spam till pyro, then combustion with LB, Ignite and Pyro active on the target. Impact Fireblast when it's up during a multiple target fight but useless on single target.

    maybe its true...: crit to haste..the only way how to know is try it
    From my testing, Haste to Crit once you're above 45% is a dps loss. Ideally (at least what i've found) is Crit above 45%, haste as high as you can get it from there, and no mastery.

    Why haste? The way haste works now is your DoT's tick more often but stay on the target the same amount of time (so living bomb doesn't wear off after 4 ticks, you can get it to 5 or 6 if your haste is high enough). The lines for the tick increases are around 29% and then 36% haste, so get as much as you can.

    Cry Havoc! And let slip the Ghosts of War..


  5. #85
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    The living bomb DPS grows linearly with haste, so the tick numbers per cast isn't that much important. But it's better to cross the haste threshold to add another tick when you're close to it. Because you'll get a longer living bomb duration, nets you more time on casting other spells.

    And from what I've read from the EJ thread, crit scales better after 45%.

    Edit: Just read another thought on living bomb duration: shorter living bomb duration gives more explosion during a certain amount of fight. Well, I'm not so sure about which is better now. lol
    Last edited by Tschus; 10-20-2010 at 11:55 AM.

  6. #86
    That's not the case anymore. haste doesn't effect duration, only the number of ticks. Living bomb will always last for the same period of time, unfortunately it's easy to cut off the last tick by refreshing it early, thus you need to let it drop off before recasting it.

    As for crit, 45% is the minimum. I tested reforging haste into crit (taking me to 51%) and dropping my haste to 730-ish, and my dps dropped on the dummy in ironforge by a full 1.5k dps, and it wasn't RNG, i tested over 2 days with 4 attempts each and fraps'd them.

    Mastery is sadly wonderful for multiple targets and trash, but utterly fail on single target (I have tested this and will have a video of all 3 reforging sets ready for the weekend).

    Cry Havoc! And let slip the Ghosts of War..


  7. #87
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    thank you Goros.
    And did you try arcane? its easy to get a very high dps with priority : haste, mastrery, crit..didnt try: mastery, haste, crit..
    (cant try bcs wow is now unplayable)
    for me its about +2k dps more than fire..didnt try in raid(cant try bcs wow is now unplayable)

  8. #88
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    hey any of u happen to be very nice and help me with what i need to reforged ? cause i cant see what i should reforge and not.. and is my spec ok or do i need to change it? http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...oon&cn=Clestin

    /Clestin

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Clestin View Post
    hey any of u happen to be very nice and help me with what i need to reforged ? cause i cant see what i should reforge and not.. and is my spec ok or do i need to change it? http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...oon&cn=Clestin

    /Clestin
    Make a thread in the "halp" forum. Or just read the previous 6-8 posts because that's all we're talking about here. This is not a thread to discuss armory of individual characters.

    Cry Havoc! And let slip the Ghosts of War..


  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Potvora View Post
    thank you Goros.
    And did you try arcane? its easy to get a very high dps with priority : haste, mastrery, crit..didnt try: mastery, haste, crit..
    (cant try bcs wow is now unplayable)
    for me its about +2k dps more than fire..didnt try in raid(cant try bcs wow is now unplayable)
    I haven't touched arcane no.

    My question to you is when it was 2k dps more for you, did you go from full mana to OOM in cycle, or just until you hit a peak? My impression so far of arcane is that without cycling through regen cycles your DPS drops drastically and you can't allow yourself to drop below 40% mana...in my experience impossible unless your fights are short, and that includes using an evocation.

    All my numbers are based off of overall dps from full to OOM, as that's the only real way to judge total dps output in a raid when hitting a dummy.

    Cry Havoc! And let slip the Ghosts of War..


  11. #91
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    At 37.5% of haste, which is exactly when you get a sixth tick of living bomb, the interval between living bomb ticks is 2.1818 secs and it has 6 ticks. The total duration is 13.09 secs.
    At 37.4% of haste, the interval between living bomb ticks is 2.1834 secs but it has only 5 ticks. The total duration is 10.92 secs.

    If you use recount to monitor the dps, I think it's better to use the dps number at exactly when you go oom. The dot ticks after that will lower the number.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Tschus View Post
    If you use recount to monitor the dps, I think it's better to use the dps number at exactly when you go oom. The dot ticks after that will lower the number.
    Yep, that's the number i was using.

    As for the haste thing, are you 100% sure of that? I was under the impression duration was identical after 4.0.1 hit regardless of haste, it just gave you extra ticks depending on your haste %.

    Cry Havoc! And let slip the Ghosts of War..


  13. #93
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    my test with fire: casting until i get oom without using evocation, but i use gems and arcane torrent. with arcane too.
    i use gems bcs its a buff for arcane so i use them with fire to make no differences. i dont use evocation because its a big plus for arcane.i dont know a fight that can last longer than you get oom with arcane. if you have a good rotation and timing it can last very long

  14. #94
    Potvora, what kind of numbers are you putting down on a Dummy and on Saurfang in 10M with arcane?

    Cry Havoc! And let slip the Ghosts of War..


  15. #95
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    I like how the thread is being kept active about mages in Catac discussion! Keep it up!
    Con Brio is recruiting! Look within for details. www.conbrioguild.org
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  16. #96
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    not sure what do you mean but. i look on the dmg done afrer combat. and im looking on recount all over the time im testing. i wasnt Saurfang 10N yet bcs 25 and 10 have common save. And in 25 im always freezed now so I cant try it..same on Horsman
    But it is not easy to try different techniques in ICC bcs you cant go to ORG and reforge while you are in raid and every boss has different resistances..this can last weeks. arcane(crit, mastery, haste or haste, mastery, crit) fire(haste, mastery, crit or crit, mastery,haste) 4 weeks of testing....
    But what im interested in is how it can be(fire) with crit,mastery,haste..because when i full reforge to crit i have about 47% crit chance with molten armor and intel buff. in 25 man raid full buffed it can be + 10%(not sure) of crit. then you can feel the difference..but i cant..
    Last edited by Potvora; 10-22-2010 at 06:03 AM.

  17. #97
    No, from my testing (putting me over 52% crit base) it's a straight up DPS loss, and a big one.

    IMO for fire you need crit to 45%, then haste for the rest. Anything giving 5sp or less socket bonus go 20 int gem, screw the bonus (the gem is better). For the rest, int/haste and int/hit gems when you want the larger socket bonus.

    Cry Havoc! And let slip the Ghosts of War..


  18. #98
    what about the mastery?
    Is usefull reforge item to have mastery? And wich stat i have to reforge? (sorry for my terrible english)
    i mean between critical, hit and haste wich one i have to sacrifice?
    thanks for any reply

  19. #99
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    I reforged my Spirit to Mastery, and, where I could, to Haste. Interesting thing about Mastery, my dps varies widely depending on Hot Streak procs, but my Damage Done is consistently top on the meters (while our Arcane mage was topping DPS, his damage done was near the bottom), the DoTs are just beating the hell out of the bosses. While numbers are not my strong suit, I think the Mastery has a lot to do with it. I tend to prefer topping Damage Done over topping DPS.

  20. #100
    Damage done is the most important number. Ideally, you should be at the top of both DPS and Damage Done provided you know what you are doing and are doing it right.

    When someone has more DPS and less Damage Done, it means they have inactive time - time when they aren't casting anything...which is the first rule of DPS - Always Be Casting (ABC).

    I pulled 23k on Sarth last night to do 35% of overall Damage Done. The next closest was a hunter at 9.7k and 13% damage done.

    Since they nerfed fire, I went back to arcane with the exception of a few select fights with adds.

    On to my findings with fire:

    The best single target DPS with fire was reforging to 16.5% hit or more, a minimum of 45% crit (with molten armor), and as much haste as you can stack after that. For aoe's, mastery took a clear lead over haste, and stacking crit was a straight DPS loss vs all of the above.

    So, my priority list for reforging would be Hit>Crit (to 45%)>Haste>Mastery>Crit

    Cry Havoc! And let slip the Ghosts of War..


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