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Thread: TTW/Fire Mage Guide

  1. #41
    Blue, I ran a test yesterday out of boredom and put together a fire set for myself (just swapping 4 items of equivalent item level to make hitcap), set up my powerauras strings and macros, and messed around with fire over a period of about 4 hours.

    Once I got the rotation down (I included scorch because it was a target dummy) the DPS was very close to each other overall. Self buffed, on a boss target dummy, here is the breakdown.

    Arcane - 30k Mana pool, 1 Hasted Evocation, 2 Mana Gems used - 3:15 seconds total uptime, ~6.3k DPS, 1.144M Damage Done
    Fire - 26k Mana pool, 1 Hasted Evocation, 2 Mana Gems used - 3:27 seconds total uptime (not including dots ticking down after OOM), ~5.9k DPS, 1.218M Damage Done.

    Now, assuming that I screwed up a few times with fire being unfamiliar with it, and that I had a short streak where the RNG screwed me and I didn't get a hot streak as often as I might in a raid, the overall DPS output single target with fire seems to be better, but uptime between arcane and fire is negligible (12 seconds more in fire - yes the spells use less mana but your mana pool is far smaller, so they are neck in neck there). Fire is clearly less bursty, at this time for me (in almost all 264 gear in both specs) I'll be picking the bosses I down with fire vs arcane carefully based on raid makeup and the needs of the fight. I assume that having a warlock in the raid will make it so Scorch will be out of the rotation also giving me one less thing to worry about, which will raise DPS by a smidge.

    Here is the video of both so you can take a look and see what I might be doing wrong in Fire. Also, does Potion of Speed outweigh Potion of Wild Magic for fire?


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  2. #42
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    Well, several things to consider-

    1. If your armory is up to date, then you weren't optimally gemmed for fire.
    2. Fire gets more out of raid buffs than Arcane does. Raid buffs include 5% crit, 5% crit debuff, 3% crit debuff, spell power from either a warlock or shaman. Fire receives more benefit to dps from all of those buffs than arcane does. This is intuitively grasped by knowing the spell coefficients for fire and arcane, and the stats table Xodiv linked should corroborate to this.
    3. Your fight time from start to OOM was better for your CD usage. While your mana ended before your AP and Icy Veins ended, you still got about 9 seconds of uptime on them. That's 2.75 uses of Arcane power, and 1.5 uses of Icy Veins.
    4. I know you said this, but you aren't used to fire in a raid.
    5. Raid buffed, you'll get much more Hot Streaks than you would self-buffed. That plus more Ignites can result in a significantly different damage distribution among your spells. The increased Hot Streaks and Ignites would mean fire sees a bigger jump from raid buffs than arcane.

    If you're doing normal mode ICC25, may I recomend the following bosses be done as fire?
    -Marrowgar
    -Saurfang if you don't have to dps the adds, Festergut to compare yourself to previous resets
    -Professor Putricide (although this requires to be good about keeping up LB on PP while dpsing adds, as well as applying a single LB on the slimes assuming they live long enough to explode)
    -Sindragosa


    Three of those fights favor fire a decent amount over Arcane.

    Yea, you won't need to scorch if you have a demo or aff lock, but do be aware that locks may or may not keep up the debuff below 35% because other spells naturally replace them.

    Yes, potion of speed is still better than potion of wild magic.

    All in all, I'd be sure to be able to get a parse for the bosses you're fire on and see how well you did fire, for a more accurate comparison to arcane.

    Out of curiosity, what combat text mod is that?
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  3. #43
    1) I know I wasn't optimally gemmed for fire. I only swapped 4 items out of my Arcane set to make hitcap. I should be using more SP/Crit than SP/Haste, but I wasn't going to regem all my gear just in case it didn't work.

    2) I'll take a look at the table, but I take your word for it.

    3) Yeah I looked at them when they came up for fire but with the mana that was left decided not to tap them

    4) Practice I suppose.

    5) I'll give it a whirl. I need to start collecting gear for fire, as I was mostly focused on BIS for arcane. Looks like I have to farm up another abyssal rune to replace my talisman of resurgence (I scrapped my old one).

    I have my power auras set to warn me if my (or the locks) debuff drops off the boss. (Need to check to see if I have it set for Focus target also...)

    We'll be doing Marrowgar on HM, but the other 3 will be normal mode. I'll see about not DPSing the adds, but it's probably going to depend on how much ranged decides to show up (it is summertime).

    I'll swap my macro to potion of speed for fire and skip WM except for Arcane.

    The addon is miks scrolling battle text.

    Cry Havoc! And let slip the Ghosts of War..


  4. #44
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    That's Mik's? Got it, thanks.

    If you have the badges, Mithril Pocketwatch is also an option.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueSkies View Post
    That's Mik's? Got it, thanks.

    If you have the badges, Mithril Pocketwatch is also an option.
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=40682 is the emblem version; the other is a Brewfest drop. I had forgotten about this an am now going to pick it up for my 3 week old 80 fire mage.

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...za&cn=Violalee. She has some gear/gem issues, but the immediate need was to get GS up and do reasonable dps to get into ICC if I had to pug to get some drops. Seems on my server GS trumps knowing the fights.

  6. #46

    Re: TTW/Fire Mage Guide

    Thanks for the link. I had the sundial for months until I replaced it with the abyssal rune for my arcane spec.

    I would almost steer you into arcane instead of fire at that level of gear because arcane is going to do more for you right until you hit all t10 or better equivalent gear.

    I do equal dps on arc and fire in the above target dummy video, but like blue said, fire will scale better with raid buffs. I pulled 12.5k on saurfang 25 last week in arcane and hopefully will do more in fire this week. I was swapping to beasts last week also.

    When I was arcane in your level of gear I was pulling 7k or more.

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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goros View Post
    Thanks for the link. I had the sundial for months until I replaced it with the abyssal rune for my arcane spec.

    I would almost steer you into arcane instead of fire at that level of gear because arcane is going to do more for you right until you hit all t10 or better equivalent gear.

    I do equal dps on arc and fire in the above target dummy video, but like blue said, fire will scale better with raid buffs. I pulled 12.5k on saurfang 25 last week in arcane and hopefully will do more in fire this week. I was swapping to beasts last week also.

    When I was arcane in your level of gear I was pulling 7k or more.

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    Yeah, I've been told Arcane is better for me at this gear level, but I really, really like fire - I leveled with it and feel attached. I'm averaging about 6k give or take (did 9.5k the the other day on Fire boss in VoA, but the planets aligned and Hot Streak was proc'ing like mad). That said I intend to dual spec to Arcane also, but with 4 80s it gets a bit expensive; I go through more gems, pots, foods etc..

  8. #48
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    Student of the Mind is crap, and will be gone soon.

    I find range to always be a DPS boost. Dont'cha hate it when all your abilities are red?

    Quote Originally Posted by Theotherone View Post
    Yeah, I've been told Arcane is better for me at this gear level, but I really, really like fire - I leveled with it and feel attached. I'm averaging about 6k give or take (did 9.5k the the other day on Fire boss in VoA, but the planets aligned and Hot Streak was proc'ing like mad). That said I intend to dual spec to Arcane also, but with 4 80s it gets a bit expensive; I go through more gems, pots, foods etc..

    Don't dual spec for fire/arcane. To optimize both requires different gemming, and that would be a giant pain in the behind I am sure.

  9. #49
    Dual speccing is fine, but gearing changes a lot. You need 210 hit for arcane, almost 400 for fire. Crit becomes worth more etc. Choose one to be your main and one for your off, and gem correctly for the main. The other set just have "in case".

    OH also...blue...I pulled 10k dps on VoA25 in a crappy pug in fire today. I think I'm sold.

    Cry Havoc! And let slip the Ghosts of War..


  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deedles View Post

    Don't dual spec for fire/arcane. To optimize both requires different gemming, and that would be a giant pain in the behind I am sure.
    I'm becoming a bit of an altaholic. As we kind of drift through the end game in advance of Cat, ICC 10 (and to some exent) 25 are becoming pure farm content. Take my hunter for example, there are some specific items it could use for it's MM set, but recently, I've been collecting all the hunter mail without ArPen for a Survival spec set. (I really like Survival better then MM, but MM is a bit better dps). So the other night in ICC 25 I picked up http://www.wowhead.com/item=50040 for 5 DKP. It was me or DE. Frost Emblems are going to Primordial Saronite so my son can get his http://www.wowhead.com/item=49888. When we run ICC 10, there's normally a fair amount of cloth that gets DE'd. So, gearing and gemming both specs will be something to do, between leveling a 'lock, Priest and Rogue.

  11. #51
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    Oops yea, I should've said the Sundial, not Mithril Pocketwatch.

    I agree there's nothing wrong with dual specs, and like what Goros said I'd gem for one spec and share the gear for both fire and arcane.

    How did ICC go as fire, Goros?
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  12. #52
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    Just out of interest... At what point will my Rawr begin to value Crit over Haste for Fire? Not sure if it considers factors such as professions, but it's choosing haste over crit which I find surprising. My haste is a little low, I guess, until I get DFO, but I'd still expect crit to be superior, no?

  13. #53

    Re: TTW/Fire Mage Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueSkies View Post
    Oops yea, I should've said the Sundial, not Mithril Pocketwatch.

    I agree there's nothing wrong with dual specs, and like what Goros said I'd gem for one spec and share the gear for both fire and arcane.

    How did ICC go as fire, Goros?
    I'll let you know Thursday... voa was an upgrade in 25 man.

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  14. #54

    Re: TTW/Fire Mage Guide

    Rawr accounts for diminishing returns, and might recommend crit to a certain point, but then haste to take you to the next dps threshold. After getting more hasty gear, it will probably recommend more crit once it thinks you have enough haste to move the dps up again.
    Make sure you have the correct buffs selected in the buffs tab, as well as maintain scorch, maintain snare, hasted evocation and automatic armor from the options tab. Otherwise it will make incorrect assumptions and possibly the wrong recommendations.

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  15. #55
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    Yea, basically what Goros said. What Rawr values haste vs. crit entirely depends on your gearset and current levels of haste and crit.
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  16. #56
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    Aha! Thank you.
    I did update my Options tab now.

    Seems if I swap my current trinket to DFO it values crit over haste and I'm going for DFO anyway, so not a problem .

  17. #57
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    Stickied for now, please keep editing based on feedback, and thanks for your efforts!

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  18. #58
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    Will do, and thanks!
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  19. #59
    I'm all over the board on damage as fire, but haven't gotten the rotation down and haven't gotten used to watching for different stuff yet.

    I see the potential (festergut, rotface, etc) but am not performing to it's potential. It definitely scales better with the buffs, but I took a hefty DPS loss because of personal performance.

    Cry Havoc! And let slip the Ghosts of War..


  20. #60
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    Ooh, ok. Have fun as you get better as fire, or if you want me to look over your parse and analyze, go ahead and whisper me the parse!
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