Ruby Sanctum Halion

[Denekawa]

Okay I was assigned to tanking Halion in Phase 2 for the first time last night and found it difficult to know where the beam was going to appear since I could only see one of the Orbs when it wasn't directly in line with the boss. This is 25M normal mode, not hard mode.

Basically I jump through the portal and pick up the boss directly where it stands. I stand almost literally beneath it so that the boss rotates dead-center. Right now I'm trying to keep the orb on the tail side as close to the right side of Halion's tail (as I am looking at it) as I can keep it so that the beam runs directly through the boss length-wise. It is often so tight that I literally end up stepping into the beam because it's right next to me in the direction that I am moving her. The beam pops and literally in a step, I'm in it.

I'm guessing my approach offers zero room for error, so I was hoping the successful tanks could help me out here with their approach. Do you set up your camera for a top down look at the fight so that you can see both orbs or are you leaving your camera set up like you would for trash?

Basically right now all the wipes are due to me stepping into the beam because it pops just ahead of me and I step right into it when it does.

All advice appreciated.

[Fwibble]

Okay folks,

So we've been making a couple of goes at this a week since it opened and we are having some serious problems with the transition to Phase 2. As in we aren't living long enough to even worry about the cutter and proper positioning and all.

Basically what's happening is as soon as phase 2 starts our MT is jumping in the portal and grabbing aggro. Following him nearly directly are the healers. as soon as the healers start to dematerialize, the dps are jumping in too. And then we are dead.

The healers are saying that by the time they appear in the Shadow, the raid is down so much health that catching up is impossible, or the tank is dead, or both. And we are talking fractions of seconds difference between when they jumped in. Lag may be an issue because I know that even though the healers left before me, I'm getting in there before them sometimes.

Parsing out the combat log has been tricky as I can only see what happens up to my own death when I get kicked out to the Normal Realm, but up to that point the only damage I'm seeing on people comes from the raid wide aura. And maybe a breath attack on the Tank.

We use a disc priest and a resto shammy for heals and they are both very very good in general. I mean, these guys own ICC, I can't understand why they'd have a problem with this.

It seems like there is a very very simple "DO X then jump in" thing we are missing that will keep us alive long enough to get into position and all, and I have a sneaking suspicion that that X thing needs to be done by the heals. anybody have any ideas what X might be?

Thanks
Fwibbz

[Mr.Winkle]

They AOE damage in the shadow realm isn't that severe, assuming your DPS are entering on full HP (which they should be), then it'd take 10 seconds or so, maybe more, for the aoe to kill them off.

Does the tank immediately begin turning the dragon when he enters? Maybe everyone gets cleaved on entry. I've seen that happy once or twice to 1 dpser, but certianly not the whole raid.

[Mr.Winkle]

Right now I'm trying to keep the orb on the tail side as close to the right side of Halion's tail (as I am looking at it) as I can keep it so that the beam runs directly through the boss length-wise. It is often so tight that I literally end up stepping into the beam because it's right next to me in the direction that I am moving her. The beam pops and literally in a step, I'm in it.

This may sound slightly obvious but why not just give yourself a little more room to breath? I mean the raid have quite a lot of space to play with, giving yourself a little more leeway on the cutter will not detimentally affect the raid.

[Fwibble]

They AOE damage in the shadow realm isn't that severe, assuming your DPS are entering on full HP (which they should be), then it'd take 10 seconds or so, maybe more, for the aoe to kill them off.

Does the tank immediately begin turning the dragon when he enters? Maybe everyone gets cleaved on entry. I've seen that happy once or twice to 1 dpser, but certianly not the whole raid.

We did have the porting in right into the dragon's face problem a few times, but we solved that one by giving the tank a few seconds head start into the Shadow.

I really think its a lag issue or something because it seems to be taking a loooong time for some of us to get into the shadow. I mean I'm leaving Normal Realm basically last and getting in there close to first and by the time I can see the dragon I've got half health.

[Quinafoi]

You should not have to actually wait for the tank to click the portal and enter the twilight realm. It's their job to get in there as fast as possible. Even if you beat the tank in, the dragon does not attack for a few seconds. This isn't like Sunwell where only one could go through the portal at a time and order is important. While the tank and healers getting in fast is important, it's the jobs of each individual to get in fast and start performing their role. The only people who have to actually wait are DPS for a moment while aggro is established, but at that time DPS can already be in the twilight realm getting into position so they are ready to begin DPSing as soon as aggro is established.

There is only one exception to this. If your twilight realm tank gets the debuff right as the phase transition is occuring and needs to move away from the boss to drop the void zone. This is the only reason you should ever delay entering the twilight realm because the tank had to move away from where the portal is. At any other time they should just be entering immediately, along with anyone else going.

[Nyklos]

@Nyklos - This observation and strategy has already been posted on page 4 of this thread.

Oops. Sorry. I must have skimmed it too fast.

[lakjehboh]

Just a quick note, in 10man Halion "enrages" at 8mins. Our tanks got 1 shotted with 50% corporeality everytime at 8mins when we do it with 4 heals. Finally, got it down after we have a priest go shadow. Tho the DBM doesnt have the timer for enrages.

[obiwayne]

My guild continues to have problems with this fight, trying it maybe twice a week for 4-5 hours total (I'm tempted to just say we should indefinitely extend our raid lockout until we down him, since the minibosses and trash are rather annoying and not worth the effort for 3 Frosties). We have gotten to Phase 3 in the past, but often end up dying towards the end of Phase 2. So I'm trying to clarify some things that we might be missing:

1) At the start of Phase 2, one tank and one healer remains outside the portal and just sits around twiddling their thumbs until Phase 3, correct? This is how we've done it but last night one of our tanks that jumped in was saying he was getting hit for massive damage from Halion's breath due to not having the second tank standing on top of him. However, I checked my own logs for the second after he had to run away with the debuff (this was in Phase 1) and didn't see a difference in damage.

2) Can it be verified that he does NOT attack for a few seconds when you zone in? We've had a lot of problems where the tank has gone in, turned the dragon, DPS and heals have jumped in and zone in right in front of him = cleave = dead. Is it feasible for EVERYONE to just zone in at the same time and get in position, and not touch the dragon for a few seconds until the tank taunts/pulls and gets him positioned right?

3) We have a fair bit of coordination issues with regards to people running out of range of the healers with the debuff to be cleansed (I assume they run the opposite way from the rest of the raid), and people not watching the orbs properly. Any tips on this? If I'm tanking inside one thing I tried last night that seems to work well is to turn on walk and as soon as an orb passes me by a few feet I start walking in a circle around Halion rotating him, and rely on everyone else to follow so they don't end up near his claws/tail. Basically I start rotating him as soon as I see the orbs moving, and stop rotating him after the cutter ends to give DPS a few seconds to go all out on him.

It seems like this fight is almost entirely coordination, as opposed to any real tactics. We've had people screw up and be in the wrong place when the orbs spawn, and half the raid dies instantly from it. Or people who spawn right on top of Halion and end up getting tail smacked or cleaved somehow. Once, I think he debuffed the tank in that second or two before everyone else zoned in, and when they came in there was this HUGE shadow void (almost the whole length of the area) right under Halion that killed everyone in short order.

[Quinafoi]

1. None of the bosses attacks are a Meteor Strike format, even the Meteor. None of them split damage to all targets in the attack. The tank in the twilight realm will take more damage in general than the tank in the normal realm because of the addition of the shadow damage aura. The stronger tank is usually the ideal selection for the twilight realm. Other than the shadow aura, damage between the two realms on the tank is almost identical until phase three where the the buff can cause him to deal more damage on one side than the other.

2. The boss won't become active automatically for about 3 seconds when zoning into the Twilight Realm, but will immediately activate the moment someone engages it. Everyone that is going in should jump in immediately, however DPS should not start on the boss until the tank has it and instead focus on making sure they are in position. As the tank will be pulling clockwise, all healers and DPS can start by moving counter clockwise just to make sure they aren't in front of the boss and get cleaved. Being hit by the tail is far preferable to taking a cleave of breath. Once the tank has control of the boss you would make sure to be in the proper position along the bosses flanks.

3. In the twilight realm everyone should be in melee with the boss with the exception of hunters likely. The general rule is to always try to drop the debuff behind the boss. So during the kite the boss is kited away. Heroic mode makes it significantly more difficult. If a person at range gets the debuff though they shouldn't run to the edge but rather be clensed in the middle on normal so that it isn't in the kiting path. The people in melee have it clensed behind the boss so that you are kiting away from it and it will not be active by the time you complete one full cycle around the circle.

[fr0d0b0ls0n]

We are having a few problems with Halion 25 Heroic, specially with the adds.

How many people and wich classes do you use for aoe'ing the adds? What kind of tank? He holds aggro good enough?

[Darksend]

Druids are by far the best add tank when it comes to holding threat (because of swipe spam) but as long as you have at least 1 rogue any tank should be fine. People really need to be grouped so they funnel into the tank.

[Phonic]

Hi, in the 25-man Hard video... from the POV of the fire add tank. Can you tell me what addon he is using for the nameplates? It was pretty cool to see that the nameplate turned green after he got aggro. Please let me know if you can. Thanks!

[Fledern]

While tanking 10man normal tonight, the boss seemed to be a lot easier and a little check showed a surprise:

Twilight Precision has gone bye bye. FYI. No idea if it's still there in heroic though.

On the commander packs, we used to kite the commander away 100 yards. That would normally outrange his buffing shout. Apparently not anymore. Also i noticed that on my dk i can solotank a commander with zero healing. The DeathStrike selfheal is greater than his strikes. Another fyi.

[TheYanger]

Druids are by far the best add tank when it comes to holding threat (because of swipe spam) but as long as you have at least 1 rogue any tank should be fine. People really need to be grouped so they funnel into the tank.

If the option is there, DKs are definitely the best in terms of both threat and survivability (Since the adds deal entirely magic damage)...Any tank will work, but the hassles associated with paladins and warriors probably aren't worth it. Still, a DK can easily spec for full out magic reduction/AE threat and completely beast out on the adds. I do it without any tricks most of the time and can easily take out 30% of the adds health on my own, there's also the important benefit of Ebon Plaguebringer for your locks or mages or whoever is actually AEing them.

Not a matter of tank envy, DK's are just absurdly good at this.

[Yodiggidy]

What UI is the first 10 man video where the girl explains it?

Thank you

[Mikewoo]

This whole raid is a big pain for healers!

[pyxio]

Hi, is the bump/grip effect affects both realms in heroic (10M) P3? Same question for the snare effect..
thanks

[Quinafoi]

Hi, is the bump/grip effect affects both realms in heroic (10M) P3? Same question for the snare effect..
thanks

I assume you are talking about the void zones caused by the debuffs once they are clensed. Yes, on heroic difficulty these void zones are presant on both sides. You will have the fire void zones appear in the twilight realm and you will have the shadow void zones appear in the normal realm. This also includes the effects of those void zones such as the snare.

[pyxio]

I assume you are talking about the void zones caused by the debuffs once they are clensed. Yes, on heroic difficulty these void zones are presant on both sides. You will have the fire void zones appear in the twilight realm and you will have the shadow void zones appear in the normal realm. This also includes the effects of those void zones such as the snare.

If I'm right, there is also a grip when shadow debuff is cleared and a bump when fire debuff is cleared. I guess these effects only affects one realm but I want to be sure...

Anyway, thanks for the answer and the confirmation of the "double effect" of the zones.