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Thread: Just attmpted to tank VOA 10 first time

  1. #1
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    Just attmpted to tank VOA 10 first time

    we failed, bad group imho, highest dps was 4800 and 3400 was runner up. i myself am a DK and the other tank was a paladin. this is my first raid to tank so i may have not done something rite, we went straight to toravan, and i know at 3-4 stacks i taunt off, but when i tried 3x's in a row i dont remember exactly but it said unable or somthing, pretty much missed 3xs in a row, and deathgrip was on cd, was this something i did wrong on my end or the paladins? thanks a ton!

  2. #2
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    You guys may have taunt-spammed him to death. If you do it too many times he becomes immune.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

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    Also I have found that some Paladin Tanks don't like to let go of threat, therefore wiping raids on that fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    Also I have found that some Paladin Tanks don't like to let go of threat, therefore wiping raids on that fight.
    Why is it only Paladins?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

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    i think it's the rigous fury that does that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreador View Post
    Why is it only Paladins?
    Just from personal experience, only paladin players that I have paired with in pugs for that have caused me to actually type in raid for them to let go of threat. I have actually seen one taunt right after I did O.o

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    same deal with me, but i do it for any tank's who don't know the rotation, or are new at tanking, lol

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    Seems paladins are more likely than other inexperienced tanks to include their version of taunt in their rotation. Probably because Hand of Reckoning's description includes a damage amount.

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    I've also found that some new warriors /love mocking blow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    Just from personal experience, only paladin players that I have paired with in pugs for that have caused me to actually type in raid for them to let go of threat. I have actually seen one taunt right after I did O.o
    If that's the case, if I were you I'd want to work on my threat. Any class can do that to someone with a weak rotation-priority.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  11. #11
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    mocking blow.
    Mocking blow is a fixate, not a taunt. I can't remember if fixates share the same DR as taunt, can someone confirm if they do/don't?
    RNGesus - Saving you unreliably since BC.
    http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/v...ellvarsig3.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreador View Post
    If that's the case, if I were you I'd want to work on my threat. Any class can do that to someone with a weak rotation-priority.
    I only have this issue, if the RL has said nub tank first...
    Plus if I really wanted to own the threat, I would go from Blood Tank to Frost DPS in Tank gear... Which I learned was a very very bad thing to do in a ToC25 raid when I was "goofing off" because I had to actually stop auto-attacking for the other tanks to get Gormok off of me O.o

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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    I only have this issue, if the RL has said nub tank first...
    Plus if I really wanted to own the threat, I would go from Blood Tank to Frost DPS in Tank gear... Which I learned was a very very bad thing to do in a ToC25 raid when I was "goofing off" because I had to actually stop auto-attacking for the other tanks to get Gormok off of me O.o
    This happens if you are overgeared for the content. The only difference between a DPS spec and a tank spec are the 3 core tanking talents, Blade Barrier, Toughness and Anticipation. Everything else is pretty much the same, making accommodations for 15 less points to spend (in most cases, 10, since you need to spend your first 5 points somewhere to move to tier 2 talents). If there is that much difference, it means you know your frost DPS priority much better than your blood prioirities, and you just need to work at it.

    The only time I overpower people as a paladin is in ICC. If I were to take the same gear and put it on both a paladin and a warrior, the paladin wins out due to both sense undead glyph (1% extra damage) and Holy Wrath. There is no reason why a paladin should have more TPS than you in voa10, besides the need for you to hone your blood TPS skills.

    Incidentally, to the OP, you can Down Torravon with that kind of DPS, IFF the top 2 were ranged and that kind of DPS was applied to the orbs as soon as they came out. The only two reasons I have seen people fail are tanks not taunting properly or more likely, insufficient DPS on the orbs (note, not ranged dps, actual dps on orbs).

  14. #14
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    i my self am a blood tank, and i have no problem tanking, even with a pally as an ot, and i would agree to insahnity's post, you just need to find the right gear to do it, my tank gear has an expertise rating of 51, so even if the pally ot can rip threat off me, he or she would have a hard time doing it

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    Quote Originally Posted by turoktwo View Post
    i my self am a blood tank, and i have no problem tanking, even with a pally as an ot, and i would agree to insahnity's post, you just need to find the right gear to do it, my tank gear has an expertise rating of 51, so even if the pally ot can rip threat off me, he or she would have a hard time doing it
    Not quite. What I said was that their rotation is off. There's probably nothing wrong with their gear, or even if it was, there should still be enough threat stats in there to credibly hold threat. Subpar rotations far outweigh gearing concerns by a VERY large margin.

  16. #16
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    Well the issue I think is they are doing stupid stuff like AV or Hand when I taunt, because the idiot doesn't want to let go of threat... then once I have threat, I have to yell at them to take the boss back when I'm at 8 stacks.... and I had stopped doing anything but auto-attacking at 5 stacks... I think the problem is alot of the "Idiot" Tanks on my server happen to be Paladins, Besides the usual DK idiots... Hell we have a Paladin that gears for Avoidance. He is even using his Dragoneye's for Defense to have a 621 defense.

  17. #17
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    All the more reason why you should be able to out-threat him. If you have a real solid understanding of how much threat each move does, you can strip threat from somebody taunting. They probably lack this knowldege and you can play to this. They will taunt, hold it for a few seconds, then need to taunt again, and so on, until the boss because taunt immune, and then you happily hold threat until it comes off DR. You can help the process along with a taunt or two yourself, provided you aren't the one the taunt that the boss is immune to.

    If you are very observant, you can see people with very low DPS and no external misdirects still pull insane TPS, because they know which spells have the most threat inherently. These are warriors who glyph mocking blow and use it on CD, bears who cast Faerie Fire every 6 seconds when it lasts for FIVE MINUTES, and so on.

    I suggest you look up the thread on inherent threat values, posted here primarly, but some work also on EJ on this.

  18. #18
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    Blood Rotation
    Icy Touch, Plague Strike, Heart Strike, Death Strike, Heart Strike, Horn of Winter, Death Strike, Heart Strike, Heart Strike, Heart Strike, Heart Strike
    with Rune Strike bound to everything

    Vs

    Frost Rotation
    Icy Touch, Plague Strike, Blood Strike, Blood Strike, Obliterate, Frost Strike, Obliterate, Frost Strike, Icy Touch, Plague Strike, Horn of Winter, Frost Strike
    and not using Rune Strike at all

    If I have threat I can keep it, its just trying to take threat from someone that doesn't want to share. I taunt, they taunt back >.< and crap like that, then they don't want to take threat when they are supposed to.

  19. #19
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    *Sigh* You aren't gonna look for it, are you?

    http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...-threat-values

    (with thanks to Kaze for keeping it up to date)

    You are using a HS based rotation, you can switch to a DS rotation, which should free up some GCDs during rune blackouts for RP usage (-> Death Coils). Heartstrike rotations are great for cleave effects, but a good DS rotation can edge it out on single targets, even forgetting the heal effects. You can tell if you are on the right track if your RP bar is always full, it shouldn't be.

    Frost doesn't use RS much, because they use Frost Strike, which is a better use of RP for threat, comparitively speaking.

    If you read the thread you will note certain things stand out, such as Icy Touch damage TIMES 7 threat (it's the DK shield bash now), to which frost gets a LOT of bonus damage.... Runestrike x 1.75... and so on. Aside from the IT buff, DW tanks who spec into Scent of Blood should be able to manage a lot of runestrikes and still do frost strikes. But blood DKs do a lot of raw damage, which gets amplified in their rune strikes, provided they have a good weapon (which is why we say blood is a very gear dependant spec, whereas frost is not).

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insahnity View Post
    *Sigh* You aren't gonna look for it, are you?

    http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...-threat-values
    Nah, I did look at it now, and way over my head... I suck at theorycrafting stuff.

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