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Thread: Realm First Lich king Question

  1. #1
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    Realm First Lich king Question

    Hi guys.
    My question is regarding the first guild whom killed the lich king on 10 man normal.
    I have a friend who has gonne insane with GS add on and even asks your gs to take breakfast. I want to know if anyone knows what was the GS or the gear of those 10 man raids?
    I ask this 'cause im trying to prove him a point, Gear does nothing unless you have experience using the class. (he rejected once 2 tanks for lower GS and the higher ones turned to be a little new and lead to wipe.

  2. #2
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er2uU...layer_embedded

    that was a US 18th kill, world 56th, with no zone buff

    I have 65K hp. Pretty sure with the 25% buff you can MT it in full 251 tanking gear.



  3. #3
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    One thing that you have to remember is that GS ≠ Skill, In some cases GS can have some Influence though.

    IE: You don't want a 4.1kGS Tank for ICC10.

    Too answer your question about the LK Kill in regards to GS, They were around 5.6-5.8k Each I believe (Or iLevel 251 + ).

    Hope this helps :S
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  4. #4
    Understand from a statistics point of view;

    GS has a positive correlation with both experience and skill.
    If you take 1000 players with a 6k gs and 1000 with a 5.5k gs and find a variable to measure skill and variable, there is a 99.9% likelihood (on a statistical level, this is not my opinion) that the former has higher results in both variables.

    Because of this correlation, people rate you by GS.

    In the end, complaining about the system leads nobody anywhere. Understanding and beating the system gets you very far in life. Successful individuals don't complain, they work harder.

  5. #5
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    @darksend
    1) Put out a HM LK video
    2) Jesus clean your bags.

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the answers. Im just asking cause my realm Quel'Thalas is a latin american server. I've seen that is mainly a casual player realm (sorry if anyone gets angry). Im honest, im a casual player cause of my profesion (MD) but i get prepared, (see movies learn and wise tanking).
    And i've seen too many players with good GS but they've got them been carry on pugs or guild raids, and when they are alone or have the responsability they fail. That's why in my opinion GS not always reflects Skill (even thou many times does it). My only problem with my friend was that he got fanatic of GS and never saq the rest, that cost us many wipes, the reason what i said before it was "given" their gear not earned by their own effort.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamani View Post
    Understand from a statistics point of view;

    GS has a positive correlation with both experience and skill.
    If you take 1000 players with a 6k gs and 1000 with a 5.5k gs and find a variable to measure skill and variable, there is a 99.9% likelihood (on a statistical level, this is not my opinion) that the former has higher results in both variables.
    On average. However guilds don't typically look at GS, they look at production. This means the 'usefulness' of gearscore is primarily for Pug groups. In this case, a skilled player on an alt or off-spec with a 5.3k GS will often out-perform 5600-5900 GS players (5900 seems to be a pretty achievable GS for a fail player anymore).

    So if you look at the WoW universe in aggragate, your statement is correct. If you look at where GS is used, I think your statement is fairly inaccurate. It's probably true than in 65% of cases the 5900 GS player is better than the 5500 GS, but it is no where close to a certain thing.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  8. #8
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    I'd like to point you at the guild "Undergeared". Read about them here:

    http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com/200...d-for-icc.html

    Summary: Wearing nothing above ilvl 200 blue gear, this team of people have killed to the best of my knowledge 7 bosses in ICC. You heard me right, if you're looking for purple pixels you won't find it on their toons, but they are downing ICC 10 bosses. If this doesn't prove the point you're trying to make to your friend, I don't know what does.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wormjustice View Post
    Hi guys.
    My question is regarding the first guild whom killed the lich king on 10 man normal.
    I have a friend who has gonne insane with GS add on and even asks your gs to take breakfast. I want to know if anyone knows what was the GS or the gear of those 10 man raids?
    I ask this 'cause im trying to prove him a point, Gear does nothing unless you have experience using the class. (he rejected once 2 tanks for lower GS and the higher ones turned to be a little new and lead to wipe.
    A bunch of us on alts killed LK10 (normal) with a 4.7k gs (which is basically in 232 gear w/a few 200 purple/blue items (I believe the stam trinket from AN)) paladin tank, 4.3k gs (which is basically half-blues) fury warrior and a bunch of other people hovering around 5k (including me on my paladin, healing, though another of our healers was probably in the 5.5k range). And this was at either 15% or 20% (I forget exactly when it was)...now it's even easier. It's mostly a matter of knowing what to do and doing it fast than having super gear.

  10. #10
    Two things you should note about most of those realm first kills.

    First, is the lack of the buff (Which has been mentioned before), and that now, with it at near maximum you can get away with substantially less gear than you had a couple of months ago.

    Secondly, is that the Gearscore on a lot of those people who were doing server first Lich King 10 kills were inflated due to both running ICC 10 and 25, and also from the existence of ToGC 25 gear that was all of higher iLevel than anything you’ll find in normal ICC 10 up till the end, and tended to be better itemized than a lot of ICC 10 gear was.

  11. #11
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    World firsts for 10 mans were likely done with very few pieces under iLvL 245.

    Remember, these guys farmed ToC10 and 25, as well as ToC10/25 heroic for quite a while before ICC was available. With the zone buff it is entirely possible now to go in with predominantly 232's/219's, less than that gets dicey if you are in a major role like tank/healer.
    RNGesus - Saving you unreliably since BC.
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  12. #12
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    Guilds don't care too much about gear score, because it's assumed high end guilds will have the best loot available(barring RNG), it's also required to be good at the game so uh, yeah.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MellvarTank View Post
    World firsts for 10 mans were likely done with very few pieces under iLvL 245.
    Remember, these guys farmed ToC10 and 25, as well as ToC10/25 heroic for quite a while before ICC was available.
    I think Mell is right.

    I love the idea, though I didn't find anything suggesting what gear any of the first clears were wearing. The phased opening of ICC also probably squashed the point a bit.

    So, the people who got the first kills on LK went into ICC wearing ToGC10/25 gear entirely (unless there was a better lower level option but that's not the point heh) so 245-258 avg ilvl. They then had a good long while on the lower spire, a nice month on the Plague Wing, and a couple weeks on the Blood Wing, and at least some kills on the Frost Wing to round up some gear.

    I agree that the people who cleared through first probably could've done it in full 226 gear, but I expect that even if you find what you're looking for it might not be suitable evidence for your point.

    Maybe an alternative way to get him to see some light is to take the argument home. In theory he thinks highly of his ability? See if he has any lower level gear, see if you can get him to downgrade his gear score and see how much it hurts his performance (little rougher with min/maxed dpsers, but it should still be enlightening if you actually got him to do it).
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selyndia View Post
    Secondly, is that the Gearscore on a lot of those people who were doing server first Lich King 10 kills were inflated due to both running ICC 10 and 25, and also from the existence of ToGC 25 gear that was all of higher iLevel than anything you’ll find in normal ICC 10 up till the end, and tended to be better itemized than a lot of ICC 10 gear was.
    This is entirely true. I think some casual gamers (such as myself) forget to put into perspective that there are REALLY good people that play this game. They don't screw around and have fun in raids, they compete. They have 25 people with full gaming PC's (system requirements to even get into guild), and that's all they do is raid, 4+ hours per day, 5+ days a week. So when ICC came out, you had 10 people in the raid and likely 9 of them had 4pc 258 t9 gear which is much superior to the 251 drops out of ICC10. Once you have a gearscore of about 5500, GS = skill more and more. Simply because you run out of ability to farm emblems and purchase "welfare gear," or you haven't been far enough into icc to get drops from the last 4 bosses or so. I do hate that people get hung up on gearscore, and it will never be a true measure of skill. But when standing in dalaran and you see a toon with a 6300+ GS, it's very likely they know how to get stuff done.

  15. #15
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    theres ppl with 6k gs and like 4/12 killed in icc

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