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Thread: Help my poor mage please

  1. #1
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    Help my poor mage please

    I'd love some constructive suggestions for my mage. I do okay, but I know I could do better.

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...nidas&cn=Azoot

  2. #2
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    It would really help if you could be a little more specific as to what you mean by "could do better" - do you feel that you do not reach your full potential of you current gear and spec or do you seek advise on how to gear from this point? Please elaborate
    "You pull it, you tank it" -Ajire
    Armory: Ajire@Scarshield Legion.EU

  3. #3
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    Thanks for the response. I'm looking for suggestions on tweaks to my current spec, gemming and enchants. I feel pretty good about my rotation.

    I've almost got enough badges for my 4 piece (I'm going for the shoulders. Both the chest and shoulders will be individually a downgrade from the current piece I have there but the shoulders seem like less painful of a downgrade.)


    Griff

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    1) Your hit rating is way over the hit cap. Currently, you need to be at 17% to be hit capped, and with your 6% talents in hit, you would need your hit to be sitting at 11% (289). That number gets even lower when you start factoring in raid buffs from Moonkins, food, etc.

    2) Your haste rating is a little low. Currently, at your gear level, haste is pretty important. You don't ever want to get too much haste, as you can drop below the GCD with Heroism and other on use effects.

    3) Since you have the 2 pc set bonus, you'll want to be casting Missile Barrage anytime it procs to keep your haste up. Don't adhere to the 4 Blast/then Missile. Cast Missile anytime it procs.

    4) ABC. Always Be Casting. Make sure you have Quartz or another cast bar add on that shows pre-cast latency so you can anticipate when you are casting.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griff View Post
    I'm looking for suggestions on tweaks to my current spec, gemming and enchants.
    Your gear looks fine, execpt for the trinkets: Talisman of Resurgence is only good for it's on-use and Nevermelting Ice Crystal is generally a bad choise for Bust-casters (leave it for the Aff locks and Shadow Priests). Try to get your hand on Abyssal Rune (ToC5 normal); Whooping passive haste and a sweet proc effect, (BiS for arcane mages until Dislodged Foreign Object from Rotface 25). For the other trinket, Muradin's Spyglass(gunship battle 10) is not a bad choise, which would go nicely with your fire spec as well.

    Gemming is also fine, except that you wouldn't do any harm swapping in a few more SP/haste gems - scaling of haste and SP is almost neck and neck for arcane, with a slight emphasis on SP. Just watch that haste cap of 50% where your GCD becomes 1 sec (and crit becomes your new 2nd best stat). With the 2-set bonus/heriosm/icy veins, that is surpricingly easy to reach. Also, the + all stats gem is generally a waste. you are better off with more SP/haste (Remember: The prismatic socket from the Belt Buckle takes *any* gem color, not just prismatic)

    Enchants is also fine: You could consider swapping Hit/Crit on feet with 18 spi, but it is more a cosmetic choice. Tusskar's vitality is also a choice here, but you should only consider it if you have trouble responding to mechaninics that require that you move.

    Your arcane spec seems mostly fine: You have one point too much in frost, which I personally have put in Slow; that spell works wonders on fights like Saurfang. For the filler talent in frost, I use 4 points in improved Frostbolt, which does have it's uses along with slow, if you need to kite two Blood beatst for instance, but Ice Shards is a perfectly acceptable choice if you want to be on top of the trash dps chart, but Frostbite doesn't really have a good use in a raid setting. Also, Student of the Mind is generally a waste for arcane (but a must for Fire!); Consider moving them to Magic Attunement or Arcane Stability instead.

    For fire, you need to get Student of the Mind Maxed - consider moving the points in flame Throwing. Also, if you plan to use fire regulary, you need another approach to gearing, mainly, going for crit instead of haste and a whole lot of hit rating!

    Quote Originally Posted by Griff View Post
    I've almost got enough badges for my 4 piece (I'm going for the shoulders. Both the chest and shoulders will be individually a downgrade from the current piece I have there but the shoulders seem like less painful of a downgrade.)
    Definitely go for the shoulders. The Meteor Chaser's Rainment is aBiS, if not BiS, until the 25 heroic version of Bloodmages Robe, for arcane.


    A few comments to jjokeefe:

    Quote Originally Posted by jjokeefe View Post
    1) Your hit rating is way over the hit cap. Currently, you need to be at 17% to be hit capped, and with your 6% talents in hit, you would need your hit to be sitting at 11% (289). That number gets even lower when you start factoring in raid buffs from Moonkins, food, etc.
    Arcane mages always have too much hit, and there is not a whole lot to do about it. Also, our mage-in-distress has a fire spec, where the whole 17% worth of hit rating is needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by jjokeefe View Post
    3) Since you have the 2 pc set bonus, you'll want to be casting Missile Barrage anytime it procs to keep your haste up. Don't adhere to the 4 Blast/then Missile. Cast Missile anytime it procs.
    Just wrong. While 12% haste bonus to arcane missile is sweet, 54% flat damage bonus is sweeter; Always stack AB to three when the two set bonus is up, and then cast AM to refresh it, provided ofc it have procced.
    Last edited by Ajire; 06-22-2010 at 11:27 AM.
    "You pull it, you tank it" -Ajire
    Armory: Ajire@Scarshield Legion.EU

  6. #6
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    Yeah, I was going to say, I know I'm over hit for arcane but when I looked at the talents that provide hit boosts, they also lower mana costs so I decided to leave them be. I'm not actively gearing or gemming for hit so I think its just what it is.

    As for fire. I just respecced to that recently from a pvp frost spec that I never used. I know fire favors crit but I'm just not comfortable enough with it yet for a complete gear overhaul. I've been using it for my daily random while I get used to the ins & outs.

    Good call on the nightmare tear. I had originally been using that for a meta activation (probably dumb in a prismatic socket as I could have gotten a socket bonus from somewhere else -- hey, I've played a tank for years, lots of blows to the virtual head) but I added an extra blue gem with my t10 hat recently and forgot to swap the belt buckle out.

    I'll farm that trinket up too. I'm pugging icc so drops are hard to come by.

    The spec suggestions seem crafty too, I'll give it a whirl.

    Thanks gobs for all the good suggestions and for taking the time to look me over!

  7. #7
    Ok, well...I'm going to ignore some of the other posters on here that already answered and give it a whirl.

    As an Arcane Mage, you want to go for the standard 57/3/11 build. That extra point in your frost tree is doing absolutely nothing for your dps. I advise putting the 2 points that you will have left in ice shards over into frost warding as it helps negate some damage (assuming you pop ice ward or fire ward in your raids at the right times).

    I advise taking all 3 points out of SotM and moving them into Arcane Stability and Magic Attunement. With the nerf to IA, the extra points we have in our tree now are "flavor" but I've noticed that by putting 2 points into Attunement has helped with a few ICC bossfights, including Marrowgar (I can stand anywhere in the room and hit him during bone storm), Saurfang (Standing farther back from blood beasts is never bad, especially in heroic mode) and LK. The rest of the spec looks good.

    As for gearing, for arcane the BIS set is t10 chest, shoulders, head, and gloves, with Kilt of Untreated Wounds taking BIS because of all the Hit on the t10 pants. For a PvE fire spec, the t10 pants become best in slot and the Meteor Chasers Raiment becomes BIS for your chest. Also, you DO have too much hit (for arcane), but don't get rid of the pieces because if you ever want to go full PvE fire you will need most of them again. Also, you can see a dps increase by going to any number of 1H caster weapons plus the Shriveled Heart offhand (and enchant the weapon with Black Magic).

    As an arcane mage, you need 210 hit assuming you have a good mix of raid buffs to never miss a boss. As for arcane rotation, highest DPS modeling is still AB4AM (proc) but with 2pc t10 your best mana conservation/DPS balance comes from AB3AM (proc). This equals out to around 30k more overall damage in a bossfight every 3 minutes or so...Not groundbreaking but nothing to sneeze at I go for the full AB4AM unless I know I'm going to evocate, then I do AB3AM followed by hasted evocation.

    Here is a link to my Armory and you can see it is possible to get your hit where you want it to be as an arcane mage.

    I recommend you download Rawr or go to the online beta version and load your character and run the optimizer. It will tell you what you could be doing better. Also, Rawr will tell you which pieces will give you the most bang for your buck and rack and stack the items to make sure you always know what your upgrades REALLY are. Gearscore/Item Level isn't everything, and is definitely not the right way to itemize your character.

    Cry Havoc! And let slip the Ghosts of War..


  8. #8
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    Alas, but this toon is in a casual guild still working on 10/25 man icc normal modes so while I can dream about BIS heroic gear, it would not be prudent to develop gearing strategies that anticipate having any of that gear in the near future.

    I had been using the Frost needle ( I think) and shriveled heart but I saw a slight increase in both SP and haste when I got the new stick. Admittedly, I had SP and not Black Magic on the needle. I'll re-enchant the needle and see how it works out.

    I do have one slight rotation related question: I have a macro to pop my resurgance trinket, POM, icy veins and arcane power for heroism situations or when I know I'm going to have some unimpeded burn time. Usually I just arcane blast for the duration but I'm not sure if its better to continue with a normal rotation.

    And I don't give much credence to gear score mods. I generally look at the itemization and benefits from a piece of gear rather than what it would do for some arbitrary 'gear score'

  9. #9
    Rawr will give you all the information you need to itemize, gem and enchant correctly.

    As for the pants, t10 & t10.5 are still fail because of the hit (for arcane). Get Leggings of Woven Death crafted as they are better overall for arcane than t10 gear (till 277 ilvl). I use them until my turn comes up for the Kilt.

    Frost Needle isn't much better than what you have now as it has hit on it also. You really want to try to get the Frozen Bonespike off Marrowgar 25 Normal until you get the opportunity for something better.

    As for your macro, popping PoM is a waste. Your "massive dps spike" macro should be Arcane Power, Icy Veins, and Potion of Wild Magic. You should add Mirror Image to that when you hit 4pc t10 for the quad core bonus damage. As for popping it during heroism, I would avoid it. You will be hitting the point of diminishing returns, and will probably hit the GCD cap.
    I usually open bossfights with ABx3, PoM, AB, AP/IV/Pot/Mirror, and then AM, and then continue with the ABx4AM rotation (AM only when the proc is up). By using all AB during Heroism or your macro you are actually decreasing your DPS output for 2 reasons, #1 your AM barrage can hit for over 50k in one cast (assuming all 5 crit, it does happen) and #2 you're going to run OOM stupidly fast and have to spend time on evocation, popping gems, or wasting your potion on a mana pot instead of a wild magic pot - as opposed to DPSing without interruption till the boss dies. Also, this allows you to keep using your cooldowns whenever they come up, and when heroism hits you shouldn't need any other procs unless you have Mirror Image up (but cast without IV due to diminishing returns from haste).

    Cry Havoc! And let slip the Ghosts of War..


  10. #10
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    A few things pop out right away;
    - Don't Use IV during H / BL, or use a potion of speed, you will start rubbing up against GCD limit.
    - Try to replace your Nevermelting Ice Crystal with a Abyssal Rune, its far better itemized for arcane mages, and fairly easy to get as its ilevel 200.
    - Once again always keep casting, even while moving. Arcane Barrage > Fire Blast > Ice Lance, when you do have to move... Popping PoM while moving to fire off Arcane Blasts is good practice, and causes your Arcane Barrages to hit harder. Learning fights so you can minimized movement helps to.
    - A few points in Arcane Stability never hurts on some fights (sindra, fester, PP) because push back means your taking more time casting.
    - Try to evo with your 2 piece bonus as it will free up more time for deeps
    Last edited by leethaxor; 06-22-2010 at 02:42 PM.
    [Today 06:48 PM] Ion:swimming in a natural body of water ISN'T acceptable...it's momentarily tolerable

  11. #11
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    I had been using speed pots. I'll give wild magic a whirl.

    As for the Knickers of Expensive Doom - I'd need to swap out my Meteor Chaser's Rainment in order to continue to keep the 4-piece bonus. Which do you think would be superior? The legs or the chest?

  12. #12
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    For the should i use this item or that use RAWR its really the best atm.
    Some thing else you can do is macro you NIC to arcane missiles for some extra pwn
    Last edited by leethaxor; 06-22-2010 at 02:53 PM.
    [Today 06:48 PM] Ion:swimming in a natural body of water ISN'T acceptable...it's momentarily tolerable

  13. #13
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    Yeah, I forgot to mention that I had mirrored images built into the macro as well, primarily for the threat delay. I'll definitely make the adjustments you all suggested though as they seem sensible.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griff View Post
    Yeah, I forgot to mention that I had mirrored images built into the macro as well.
    erm :/ this means you lost like 1 second of you CD's because Mirrors actives the GCD. Its minor, but just saying.
    [Today 06:48 PM] Ion:swimming in a natural body of water ISN'T acceptable...it's momentarily tolerable

  15. #15
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    You might want to check this thread: http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...3-in-5-minutes.
    where Xodiv and I had a discussion about the rotation with T10*2. I think ABspam0234MBAM is a better choice.

    I won't consider the emblem chest a BiS for arcane. Use T10 chest with T10 head and shoulders, and pick one from legs/gloves for the 4pc bonus. Get a tailor legs or emblem gloves for the non-set slot.

    Definitely get a Abyssal Rune, it's much better than Nevermelting Ice Crystal.

    Geming reckless ametrine in every yellow socket is usually fine, especially the neck gives a 5 spellpower bonus. Only gem a purified dreadstone in a blue socket if the bonus is > 5 spellpower. I would get the bonus from the shoulders and drop the bonus from gloves with a pure spellpower gem. Replace the nightmare tear with a purified dreadstone too.

    I would recommend Tuskarr's Vitality for shoes enchant, it is never bad to have a run speed increase.

    My opening rotation for arcane is AB*4, PoM AB, Mirror Images, IV/AP/potion of speed/trinket, then go with the normal rotation. PoM and AP now share a common CD so you can't pop AP right after PoM, so I use MI between them. Macro the IV/AP/pot/trinket part only.

  16. #16
    My mirror image is in my AP/IV/Potion of Wild Magic macro, but at the end so it activates the GCD at the end.

    In response to the OP's question the t10 chest is better than the t10 legs because of all the extra hit. Every point over 210hit is a point that could be boosting your dps if you had a better optimized piece.

    I noticed a huge DPS increase with wild magic, not to mention more crits.

    Cry Havoc! And let slip the Ghosts of War..


  17. #17
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    So Arcane Mages only need 210 Hit Rating?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goros View Post
    My mirror image is in my AP/IV/Potion of Wild Magic macro, but at the end so it activates the GCD at the end.

    In response to the OP's question the t10 chest is better than the t10 legs because of all the extra hit. Every point over 210hit is a point that could be boosting your dps if you had a better optimized piece.

    I noticed a huge DPS increase with wild magic, not to mention more crits.
    But then you're wasting 1 sec of your AP/IV/Pot in the MI GCD. That's why I suggest MI first.
    I suppose 500 haste > 200 sp + 200 crit for arcane mages? Just dont cap your AB with GCD.

  19. #19
    I don't think that's entirely accurate. I guess it boils down to which is better, 12% damage boost or ap/iv/pot (which you can use multiple times throughout the fight). I'm not sold that 1 second is going to break it, especially when you consider that lightweave, black magic, exalted ring proc, reign proc, and the 2pct10 haste bonus are most likely getting stacked at uneven times throughout the fight.

    Before the latest 5% boost I'm pulling 9-11k dps on bossfights like deathwhisper, saurfang, rotface, festergut, etc. and have almost no 264 gear yet. I'll see on friday what the extra 5% translates to, but I'm not sweating my choice of macros. It's one less button I have to worry about remembering to hit on schedule.

    As for the haste vs wild magic, I'd take wild magic every day all day over haste because i'm already at 800 base haste, plus black magic, plus 2pct10, plus IV...too close to cap to bother.

    Also, best DPS modeling is still ABx4AM but best dps vs mana pool longevity is ABx3AM. AB0234AM spam results in around a 100dps loss. All things considered it is minor (laughable actually) but it isn't accurate to say "the best" when it isn't.

    Cry Havoc! And let slip the Ghosts of War..


  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goros View Post
    I don't think that's entirely accurate. I guess it boils down to which is better, 12% damage boost or ap/iv/pot (which you can use multiple times throughout the fight). I'm not sold that 1 second is going to break it, especially when you consider that lightweave, black magic, exalted ring proc, reign proc, and the 2pct10 haste bonus are most likely getting stacked at uneven times throughout the fight.
    I can't understand your point here, what does the 12% damage boost refer to?
    What I meant is, for your opening rotation:
    ABx3, PoM, AB, AP/IV/Pot/Mirror, and then AM
    1. You can't pop AP right after PoM AB.
    2. Cast mirror image before AP/IV/Pot so you won't waste the GCD in the AP/IV/Pot duration. Although the 1sec might not affect your dps at all.

    Before the latest 5% boost I'm pulling 9-11k dps on bossfights like deathwhisper, saurfang, rotface, festergut, etc. and have almost no 264 gear yet. I'll see on friday what the extra 5% translates to, but I'm not sweating my choice of macros. It's one less button I have to worry about remembering to hit on schedule.
    Well, I'm just saying that it might be a small dps increase.

    As for the haste vs wild magic, I'd take wild magic every day all day over haste because i'm already at 800 base haste, plus black magic, plus 2pct10, plus IV...too close to cap to bother.
    800 base haste isn't a significant amount, just dont pop IV during heroism. You will need 882 haste during heroism / 1291 haste during IV to hit the 1sec cap for AB with full raid buff, 2T10, black magic and potion of haste.

    Also, best DPS modeling is still ABx4AM but best dps vs mana pool longevity is ABx3AM. AB0234AM spam results in around a 100dps loss. All things considered it is minor (laughable actually) but it isn't accurate to say "the best" when it isn't.
    I didn't say "the best" at all. I would be appreciate if you could provide information about the best dps vs mana pool longevity, I've been looking for it for a while but can't find any reliable calculations.
    I just checked my rawr again, the cycle it uses for optimal DPS is ABspam034MBAM with ABspam04MBAM during CD. It may vary on your char and the fight settings.

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