i feel like i take more damage then i should

[Dreador]

its slang for Proper and someone was just being lazy or illiterate.

Fixt- please don't underestimate my stupidz.

[Bung]

You are just not really over geared for Icc25. Most tanks will have 45k unbuffed HP and more armor than you do for Icc25. I checked out your gear and stats and you have a lot of dodge and not too much parry on your current gear. This is a disadvantage in ICC. I imagine you get hit often and hard right now. Once you gear up a little you will be fine. As a warrior tank you have all sorts of safety buttons that you can spread out during boss fights to limit the damage. Shield wall, last stand, both trinkets, armor potion, enraged regeneration..That's 6 things. You can use 1-2 each time you pick up the boss and it helps alot.

[Selene]

Fixt- please don't underestimate my stupidz.

lol didn't even notice who had posted it originally.

[Aggathon]

I checked out your gear and stats and you have a lot of dodge and not too much parry on your current gear. This is a disadvantage in ICC.

This sentance is actually wrong. It does not matter AT ALL if the avoidance is dodge or parry (or miss for that matter) even with the ICC -20% dodge debuff because the debuff comes AFTER diminishing returns. If the dodge is more avoidance outside of ICC then it is still more avoidance than parry inside ICC.

Having said that I think the avoidance side of this is relatively insignificant. Stam+Armor is what you want to stack. I also completely agree with Bung that proper cooldown usage will make you a much MUCH better tank and can be a huge benefit to you, even if you don't have the gear.

[Dreador]

Let me reiterate something I post at least twice a day. If it's not common knowledge by now, all it means is that the majority of people are either too lazy, stubborn or stupid to look around the most plentiful, open, information-packed tanking resource website in the world and find out the simplest of answers. Or even to utilize the search tool with their commonly used keywords that clutter up posts. Here's the info:

If your threat is bad, more threat stats are not going to make it better; you'll be a bad tank with a lot of expertise. Threat is fundamentally based on playstyle (kids, that means how you press your buttons). This means your rotation better be tight, your spec better be in line (this means glyphs too), and your raid (whether or not you carry tards and downies) better understand how to use MD and ToT on the tank when first pulling a boss. Without these fundamental elements, your locks, shaman, hunters, DKs, furies, ferals, mages and priests are going to constantly pull off you. Knowing how to build threat as a tank with gear that guarantees low rage, with little to no threat stats and with no rogues or hunters that know what's what is what defines a tank. The movement, taunting and using cooldowns at the right time, that's for everyone. Threat is ours alone, learn how to generate it well and you'll never have an issue.

edit: I'm sigging this post.

[Aggathon]

DO YOU THINK YOU NEED EXPERTISE AND HIT??
STILL THINK YOU NEED EXPERTISE AND HIT??

I lol'd.

[sillycat]

i pick up threat well it just feels like i take way more damage then other classes of tanks

[Speex]

This sentance is actually wrong. It does not matter AT ALL if the avoidance is dodge or parry (or miss for that matter) even with the ICC -20% dodge debuff because the debuff comes AFTER diminishing returns. If the dodge is more avoidance outside of ICC then it is still more avoidance than parry inside ICC.

Having said that I think the avoidance side of this is relatively insignificant. Stam+Armor is what you want to stack. I also completely agree with Bung that proper cooldown usage will make you a much MUCH better tank and can be a huge benefit to you, even if you don't have the gear.

What do you mean "after" diminishing returns? Can you explain? I had this discussion awhile ago with another tank who said Parry was the better stat to stack for in ICC because of the 20% dodge reduction in ICC.

I've been a long time reader on these forums, never really got to ask any questions because they were already being answered but....I always thought parry became better on a >1.88. Does that rule still follow...? Had a 3 month layoff lol.

p.s. excuse me for my lack of knowledge or whatsoever, forums have been growing so big here lol!

[Dreador]

It's wrong because even though your dodge is lowered and the more you get has bigger diminished returns than outside the instance, parry's diminishing returns are still worse. You'd need to stack your dodge very high to get to the point where parry outshines it.

[Speex]

It's wrong because even though your dodge is lowered and the more you get has bigger diminished returns than outside the instance, parry's diminishing returns are still worse. You'd need to stack your dodge very high to get to the point where parry outshines it.

So all in all dodge over parry is still king? Is it even possible to stack your dodge that high and then go for parry while keeping enough EH?

[Loganisis]

So all in all dodge over parry is still king? Is it even possible to stack your dodge that high and then go for parry while keeping enough EH?

No. Because you can never have enough EH. Dodge/Parry/Block = bonus. Gear for armor and stamina. Be happy with what dodge/parry you have, don't gem for it, don't enchant for it, don't give up armor/stamina on items for it. It's not bad, it's just not 'great enough' to be a consideration in upgrades.

[Speex]

So wow things have changed a lot then. Ive been off for 3 months. Thx for the info and feedback guys,

[Dreador]

So wow things have changed a lot then. Ive been off for 3 months. Thx for the info and feedback guys,

Nothing changed...

[Speex]

Nothing changed...

I can remember days of dodge and EH and armor :P then days of BV and EH and armor, now its days of nothing but EH and Armor :P

[Aggathon]

I can remember days of dodge and EH and armor :P then days of BV and EH and armor, now its days of nothing but EH and Armor :P

When was this? I mean there was the H-Anub25 add tanking set but that wasn't about EH at all, in fact stam hurt you (but armor was still good). I think the last time tanks ever stacked dodge was Sunwell.

[Speex]

Then I must have lived in an illusionary world lol.........I alwys thought back in Naxx(wotlk version) that dodge and EH were of value and in ulduar that it was all about eh and Blockvalue and in ToC ( indeed the addtanking set.) and now in ICC its all about eh and armor again. So it has always been then.....stupid me lol..........

I sent u a pm aggathon before i go offtopic :P

[Aggathon]

Ulduar was definitely just stack EH, you just happened to have BV on gear and it was okay, good for threat, but it wasn't something to "go" for. Naxx was easy to tank it didn't really matter how you geared, I tanked it in like half T6/Sunwell gear, lol.

[Dreador]

Since Molten Core the idea has been to increase your survivability as much as possible in a linear way, by stacking stamina and armor to the maximum. The only time that was different was in sunwell, where EH was at a point where it was pretty much high enough, and for certain fights you had to get your avoidance high to make sure you didn't get hit too many times in a row, due the nature of the fights. Post-sunwell it was back to stamina and armor until offtanking H-Anub-25 adds.