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Thread: Wires Crossed!

  1. #1

    Wires Crossed!

    Hello everyone,

    As I have been working through ICC10 and we are almost at the Lich King I wanted to take some time to review my character and my gems and enchants. I have been taking Guardians Dreadstone quite a lot to give me the expertise required to keep my DW frost tanking valid. However when I audit myself using BeImba (which may not be the best and I would take guidence on an alternative) I still get reports that my hit cap is below what it should be (stating 93 more required to cap). With me stacking expertise and stam am I being as optimal as I can be? Where could I get a true read out of my hit raiting that reflected my talents and my gems or is the report accurate?!

    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...n&cn=Necroshen

    I am duel spec, one of which includes IIT which I am still treating as conditional should our dps perhaps not be as good as it could be for some reason I can spec switch to facilitate the raid somewhat. I was hoping to have both my specs verified by the kind people on Tankspot just to clarify if I am getting the most from Necroshen that I can be. I am not suffering any threat issues nor survivability problems I am just wanting to ensure I have nice clean builds that are working for me as best they can and would like some advise and guidence on that.

    I would also take any advise or guidence that could be offered about my glyphs. Whilst I personally feel they serve me very well based on my builds I would not say that they were set in stone nor 100% perfect.

    Also are there ANY better weapons I could be using (DW only) before ICC25 or is what I have optimal at the moment until we step upto 25 man?

    With the Lich King encounter incoming (10man) I am trying very hard to get the best I can from my character and I would really appreciate any and all advice that could be offered to help me on my journey.

    Thanking you all in advance


    Necroshen

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Hit is not a do-or-die issue as a tank. It helps with threat, if you don't need help with threat then don't bother.

    Also, DW DK's get 3% hit from talents. So you need 5% from gear to cap your specials (including next-attack abilities i.e. Rune Strike).

    If you're not having threat issues, then get rid of some of the hybrid threat gems for stam. Also, what food buff do you use? If you're eating Fish instead of Expertise food, well there's an opportunity to trade something weak (AP) for something stronger (Exp, or if you get rid of some purple gems for blues, Stam). Also, +10 stats is a weak gem for a tank, replace it with +30 stam. In fact, I'd ditch almost all the hybrid gems for stam and see how your threat fares - you will probably surprise yourself.

    As far as spec and glyphs go, my DK is fail and so I have no real authority to answer those questions.

  3. #3
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    Forgive me, not a DK, got bored with mine at 67, how important is top-end damage for a frost DK? Would something like Facelifter from Putricide be acceptable to a frost tank? It has expertise and comparable damage plus more stamina, but is faster and therefore has lower top-end damage.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Harmacy View Post
    Hit is not a do-or-die issue as a tank. It helps with threat, if you don't need help with threat then don't bother.

    Also, DW DK's get 3% hit from talents. So you need 5% from gear to cap your specials (including next-attack abilities i.e. Rune Strike).

    If you're not having threat issues, then get rid of some of the hybrid threat gems for stam. Also, what food buff do you use? If you're eating Fish instead of Expertise food, well there's an opportunity to trade something weak (AP) for something stronger (Exp, or if you get rid of some purple gems for blues, Stam). Also, +10 stats is a weak gem for a tank, replace it with +30 stam. In fact, I'd ditch almost all the hybrid gems for stam and see how your threat fares - you will probably surprise yourself.

    As far as spec and glyphs go, my DK is fail and so I have no real authority to answer those questions.

    Hey Harmacy,

    Thanks for taking the time to reply to my thread with your comments. At the moment I used Fish Feats to gain +stam however would I be better served with +exp food? Being a cook and having a cook in guild means there are a large selection of buff foods I can get my hands on, perhaps it is a little lazy of me just to use fish feasts all the time.

    In terms of hit raiting % I get 5.18% from my gear so I am just over that marker by a fraction. I may consider swapping out some gems for pure stam I just dont want to bugger my build up. With my raid setup in ICC10 and on full buff I get well over 50k hp. I dont know how that would translate on the lich king fight, if more HP is needed for it then I see full justification for pure stam gems.

    Thanks again for posting your comments mate

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Loganisis View Post
    Forgive me, not a DK, got bored with mine at 67, how important is top-end damage for a frost DK? Would something like Facelifter from Putricide be acceptable to a frost tank? It has expertise and comparable damage plus more stamina, but is faster and therefore has lower top-end damage.
    The Facelifter would not be much use in DW Frost tanking because of the speed, it is too fast. I have always been advised that the best way to go is two slow DPS weapons especially since the inclusion of Rune of the Nerubian Carapace for one handed weapons.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necroshen View Post
    The Facelifter would not be much use in DW Frost tanking because of the speed, it is too fast. I have always been advised that the best way to go is two slow DPS weapons especially since the inclusion of Rune of the Nerubian Carapace for one handed weapons.
    Gotcha, I was wondering. I was looking for expertise and that was the only wep with comparable DPS that had exp.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necroshen View Post
    The Facelifter would not be much use in DW Frost tanking because of the speed, it is too fast. I have always been advised that the best way to go is two slow DPS weapons especially since the inclusion of Rune of the Nerubian Carapace for one handed weapons.
    FALSE!!!

    The use of 2 Tank weapons or 2 Slow DPS weapons is a matter of preference and threat generation.

    2 Tank weapons, more survival stats.

    2 Slow DPS Weapons, better Threat Gen.

    If you have no threat gen issues, then tank weapons are perfectly fine.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    FALSE!!!

    The use of 2 Tank weapons or 2 Slow DPS weapons is a matter of preference and threat generation.

    2 Tank weapons, more survival stats.

    2 Slow DPS Weapons, better Threat Gen.

    If you have no threat gen issues, then tank weapons are perfectly fine.
    Really? I never knew that, that is why I clearly stated "I have always been advised". You could have made your point without writing FALSE in caps hahaha.

    None the less at the risk of my topic going off course Id like to get back on track with my original questions.

  9. #9
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    Just re-looked at your specs, and while I'm far from an expert on DK's, I can assure you of two things:

    - 5/5 Tundra Stalker is mandatory. 2% overall damage and 1 expertise per point is huge for threat.

    - 3/3 Guile of Gorefiend is huge also, especially with 5 points in Killing Machine you're going to crit a lot. The extra time with IBF is nice too.

    Maybe lose the points from Black Ice? I'm not 100% sure to be honest, haven't done a ton of research into the value of each threat talent.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Harmacy View Post
    Just re-looked at your specs, and while I'm far from an expert on DK's, I can assure you of two things:

    - 5/5 Tundra Stalker is mandatory. 2% overall damage and 1 expertise per point is huge for threat.

    - 3/3 Guile of Gorefiend is huge also, especially with 5 points in Killing Machine you're going to crit a lot. The extra time with IBF is nice too.

    Maybe lose the points from Black Ice? I'm not 100% sure to be honest, haven't done a ton of research into the value of each threat talent.

    Hey Harmacy,

    Thanks for your feedback again. I totally agree with you about Tundra Stalker and Guild of Gorefiend ( as you will notice they are in my build ). I am thinking about your comments regarding Black Ice and I am also considering what effect it would have to lose that and move the talents elsewhere. Is the 10% damage increase from Black Ice actually serving me? Difficult to tell without a test but definately something I will look into.

  11. #11
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    First off for you Glyphs do you want to Glyph for Tanking Bosses or Trash?
    For Tanking Bosses you want to use the following Glyph set up:
    Obliterate (Mandatory for ANY Frost DK)
    Icy Touch (Buffs up your Frost Fever)
    Rune Strike or Frost Strike (basically personal preference, I go with Frost Strike, because you can use it all the time as long as you have the Runic Power)

    For Tanking Trash the only change would be Howling Blast instead of Icy Touch.

    As to your spec, it looks perfectly fine for an Acclimation build, I personally went with those points into Scent of Blood for more Runic Power generation.

    As to weapons, if you are going to stay with Slow DPS weapons there is only one other option in ICC10:
    Blood Princes: http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=51021

    In ICC25 there is:
    Saurfang: http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=50412
    Lich King: http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=50012

    I would recommend upgrading your chest to http://www.wowhead.com/item=50968 if you are concerned over your Expertise.

    Regarding Hit Rating for DW Tanking... Its a mixed blessing... Because with DW Talents you only need 5% for the "Melee Hit Cap" which is normally 8%.
    However Taunts and several other powers go off of Spell Hit Cap which I believe is 17%.
    I personally say try to be at the 8% cap if at all possible, but there are others that say ignore hit rating, its useless and if you really need it glyph for taunt.

    Is there any reason why you aren't doing ICC25? Because there are alot of nice upgrades there just in the first "wing" like a helm and shoulders. Shoulders that have 2 Sockets in them!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    First off for you Glyphs do you want to Glyph for Tanking Bosses or Trash?
    For Tanking Bosses you want to use the following Glyph set up:
    Obliterate (Mandatory for ANY Frost DK)
    Icy Touch (Buffs up your Frost Fever)
    Rune Strike or Frost Strike (basically personal preference, I go with Frost Strike, because you can use it all the time as long as you have the Runic Power)

    For Tanking Trash the only change would be Howling Blast instead of Icy Touch.

    As to your spec, it looks perfectly fine for an Acclimation build, I personally went with those points into Scent of Blood for more Runic Power generation.

    As to weapons, if you are going to stay with Slow DPS weapons there is only one other option in ICC10:
    Blood Princes: http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=51021

    In ICC25 there is:
    Saurfang: http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=50412
    Lich King: http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=50012

    I would recommend upgrading your chest to http://www.wowhead.com/item=50968 if you are concerned over your Expertise.

    Regarding Hit Rating for DW Tanking... Its a mixed blessing... Because with DW Talents you only need 5% for the "Melee Hit Cap" which is normally 8%.
    However Taunts and several other powers go off of Spell Hit Cap which I believe is 17%.
    I personally say try to be at the 8% cap if at all possible, but there are others that say ignore hit rating, its useless and if you really need it glyph for taunt.

    Is there any reason why you aren't doing ICC25? Because there are alot of nice upgrades there just in the first "wing" like a helm and shoulders. Shoulders that have 2 Sockets in them!
    Cheers m8, thats a wealth of info there and really irons out a few concerns that I had over my various attributes. Top stuff.
    Lack of ICC25 is really just down to personal time and available bodies at the moment

  13. #13
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    Something you might want to do is get a pair of the maces from Marrowgar and try them out. If they don't work out then go back to the DPS weapons, but if you are having no threat issues using the maces, your healers will love you more for using them since you will have more survival stats.

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