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Thread: I need to improve badly...

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    I need to improve badly...

    So I'm main spec ret, but due to happenings within the guild, I'm asked to tank a fair bit, including LK, HM's etc.
    However last night I had a nightmare of a time with threat on LK, I was doing the standard 69 rotation and spamming every button I could to get threat, obviously prioritising the 69 rotation. I'm just looking for some tips or something to find out where I'm going wrong.
    I know I'm missing 1% damage from minor glyphs and my spec needs to be fixed, but is there anything else I'm missing.

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...=Inv%C3%ADctus
    I logged off in my tank gear but armoury is being a bit slow recently...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Gear looks fine (maybe consider an armour trinket rather than dual stamina, but that's not a threat thing), gems and enchants are good. Spec is good, but I'd definitely take Vindication instead of 2/5 Convicion - that's all of ~100 TPS difference. The 1% damage from the Glyph of Sense Undead will help you a bit, but your rotation is definitely what I'd look at.

    Could you give an example of what you would do in your rotation? I don't mean to patronise, but it's surprising how often people think they're doing a 969 rotation correctly and aren't. Your comments on your threat rotation suggest that maybe it wasn't as tight as it could have been. Otherwise, do you perhaps have a log we could take a look at?

    The other thing is that if you're suddenly being asked to tank after a long time without it as your main spec, your DPS and other tanks are presumably going to be relatively better geared than you are. If they significantly outgear you, you're going to struggle with single target threat unless the DPS are helping out with MD/TotT on the pull and using their threat dumps appropriately. They might have taken those abilities off their bars if they're used to running with tanks at similar/higher gear levels to themselves, but threat management is a cooperative thing and if they're not doing their bit, you can't reasonably be held at fault.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    Cheers for the input, as for the armour trinket I'm definitly gonna try and nab the trinket from professor, now that I'm being dragged into 10man HM's I should be able to grab the heroic version sooner or later.

    This is the log from last night, http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/pwyw65todh5hipgw/
    I was sitting on 9-10k TPS and it jumped to 18-20k with TotT rotations going.
    A basic cycle for me is opening with the standard wings, taunt, AS, then SotR, HotR, and weaving in judgement, consecrate and using AS every time its up.
    In the end I had to change librams from my current too the dodge libram for extra threat.
    I'm tempted to swap out my current tanking chest for my cataclysm chestguard for some more armour and more expertise. I had a dranei in my group so I think I was hit capped at the time but by the end of it I was also tempted to swap in one of my DPS rings. :S
    Other then that I'm out of idea's on where things could be failing unless my rotation is wrong.
    Though the guild pally tank did say it doesnt help that our DPS are geared to the teeth and also commented he avgs 10k~ TPS. So yeah, I'm not sure if it's me or the other raiders.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danielmi View Post
    A basic cycle for me is opening with the standard wings, taunt, AS, then SotR, HotR, and weaving in judgement, consecrate and using AS every time its up.
    Your rotation's wrong

    A 969 rotation is alternating a 6 second cooldown (ShoR, HotR) with a 9 second cooldown (HS, Judgement, Cons) indefinitely, with no gaps. What you described above was starting with two 6s, which is where you're going wrong. Note that it's ok to start with two 6s if you're really wanting to burst threat on the opening, but it won't lead to a sustained 969 unless you fix it yourself.

    For example, a 969 would look something like ShoR, HS, HotR, Judgement, ShoR, Consecration, HotR, HS, ShoR, etc.

    It continues that way indefinitely, with no gaps, if done correctly. You don't ever "go back to the beginning" at any point either; it just keeps on going until the boss is dead or you are.

    Subbing in (unglyphed) Avenger's Shield mid-rotation is nearly always a net-TPS loss, too (same goes for HoW). Substituting AS for HS can be a threat gain against bosses with a slow swing timer, but that's obviously at the expense of survivability so not really recommended.

    For opening, if you have the time to start the pull at your pace you'll get maximum threat from Exorcism, hammering Hand of Reckoning while Exo is going off (because it'll only cause damage if the server thinks it hits the boss before Exo does) then Avenger's Shield while running in. For maximum sustained threat, save wings until you have a 5 stack of SoV up.

  5. #5
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    May 2008
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    Ah, yeah. Hehehe, I actually found that out. I guess I've played a pally so long I just assumed. And I've never really had TPS issues in the past. Anyway, cheers, I'm fixing it now. I just need to fix up my bars to accommodate.
    Cheers for the quick source of info though.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumines View Post
    For example, a 969 would look something like ShoR, HS, HotR, Judgement, ShoR, Consecration, HotR, HS, ShoR, etc.
    Anything in particular that is more of a priority over another? I know you want to keep the judgement up, but beyond that?
    I learned to tank on a DK (so know DK powers pretty much by heart, since DPS and Tanks have the same attacks if they are of the same spec tree for the most part), and leveled my pally as Ret, I can tank on my pally, but do have threat issues at times in heroics, plus always being oom (part of which is I hate dragging mobs around, I always seem to lose them to DPS...). So will admit to not being 100% familiar with pally tank powers.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    In a sustained 969, it's meaningless to speak of one ability having priority over another, because the first four abilities you cast set up the sequence which will continue indefinitely.

    Remember, though, that the 969 rotation is the rotation which gives the best threat (without compromising Holy Shield or Judgement uptime) for sustained single target fights. You don't have to be sticking rigidly to it when tanking trash or picking up adds etc. ShoR and HotR are the hardest hitting abilities - which of the two hits harder for you is dependent on gear, but purely because it hits 3 (4 if glyphed) targets then that makes HotR high priority for packs of mobs in heroics.

    If you're running out of mana, Consecrate less. That's all there is to it. Bless Sanctuary and keep Divine Plea rolling; it shouldn't take more than 15 seconds to move between packs. Consecrate is a huge mana hog. If you have enough mobs on you to warrant its use, you'll be getting plenty of mana back from BoSanc and it's not a problem. If you don't have enough incoming mana to drop Consecrate every time, you don't need to be using it anyway. Tab around instead.

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