The Weekly Marmot -- Keyboard Turning

[Ciderhelm]

[Wani]

See, I always picked you to be 21-25ish. Definitely not as young as 17 but you're still older than I expected. :O


Also, I must confess to being... somewhat of a keyboard turner but this is entirely because my set-up is funky and I got myself used to raiding Ulduar on a laptop and not always having a mouse, and well, touchpad turning is far far worse than keyboard turning. Being very left-handed, I can't use a mouse with my right hand, and as a result, I can't comfortably used wasd to move, so have my numpad set up for movement (8456 for up/left/back/right, 79 for strafe left/right) but still use my mouse for most things. The only problem I have with using my mouse is the inability to backpedal when I need to.

Also, an ingame example of keyboard turning vs mouse turning would've been more helpful :P

[Synistah]

Im a clicker and sometimes a keyboard turner, but not necessarily in raids, I use my mouse to turn almost all of the time.. Keyboard turning really is slow.

Not that clicking is any better, Ive been doing it for 4 years now, And although i can keybind easily i still chose to click and still do consistently well and not cause wipes or die etc.. If i never told you i was a clicker you wouldnt know, EVER.

Infact, i keyboard turn almost everywhere outside of raids except PvP and combat. Bad habit i guess

Now im not saying clicking + keyboard turning is good, If anything its far from it.

These days its more or less a giant taboo.. GIANT NO NO! I have had people call me a good player and then i confess i click + occasionally keyboard turn, Which is usually followed by a swift retraction of the "you are good" statement.

Edit: You should have totally addressed S- Keying while on the topic of keyboard turning simply because this amazing feat is the cause of most players deaths to fires and other "things" in the game. Maybe next time?

[Mithrael]

I have a feeling that a lot of "keyboard turners" are also "clickers", mainly because you risk overstressing your poor hand trying to do everything with it. You should really do a segment about the click/hotkey thing as well!

As the first poster, I'm also very left-handed and use the numpad for movement, which kind of sucks for some classes because of the limited amount of usable keys. Being a healer mainly, and having all my heals assigned to my mouse buttons (thank you Razer Lachesis) I don't suffer that much because of it, but when playing some alts I just have to resort to clicking the seldom-used abilities. There's always the option to just shove the keyboard to the right and use the "normal" wasd keys, but sometimes it IS hard to teach old dogs new tricks (yeah, I'm even older than you <gasp>!).

[Synistah]

Technically the majority of keyboard turners have to be clickers, It would prove difficult to click and move your mouse away from your clicks in order to turn.

Again i as a clicker, combat this because i am right handed and use a left handed keyboard. (for when i keybind, Q-Y and 1-( on numpad added with a Shift modifier)) And i also have a mouse which has a pad on the side that acts as a secondary mouse movement.(kinda like a laptop touch pad)

[Swidtter]

Well I get it a lot...
’NOOB’

Yes, I am a keyboard turning fat tanking bear. But it is possible to push up with a few skills.
I am pushin on LK heroic on both 25 and 10, and I have never had any problems with keyboard turning, my guild has kinda accepted my methods of moving around in a game.
But one of the most common things that I do, which ppl get all ’nub’ exited about is my backpedalling... Yes it’s slower and yes it looks retarded, but I have a question why on earth do you as a tank want to turn your back to a foe like LK or Sindy that hits so f’ing hard even my fat ass and 5 layers of fur aint enough to soak half the dmg.
I guess as a dps you can move around with your mouse, but I tend to use my mouse a lot in terms of targeting mobs for aggro/taunting, and turning my camera a bit, because the boss is blocking the whole view, and I find myself basically incapable of mouseturning, due to I would just run around in a crazy direction ’WOOPs sry, didn’t see that shadowtrap.’

So Lore I get you say keyboard turning is bad, but some players can skill up this nebbish move to matter a whole lot for their game play.

Oki, just watched the vid again. When something fast happens you have to move away from, like blistering cold on Sindy, I get it as a dps or healer you should ofc react fast with your mouse. But as a tank I don’t have like BAM MOVE moments, I like a flow in the a fight, a small dance with the boss, the only time for me to react is like ’ oh shit I have to taunt’ and then I got 3 ways of taunting (a mouse button macro - Shift+1 - an actual taunt i have to CLICK with my mouse, but it only shows when I am targeting a mob I am not having aggro on) ... So those move like hell moment the deeps and healorz are dealing with, I leave them for just them... maybe its good I am not a healer

And I just wanted to clarify, I am not a clicker I use my mouse clearly for targeting and a few clicks on my UI. (like my weird taunting thing - or to spam recount ofc when I reach no. 1 even during a fight... hell yes baby dps horny tank!)

[off topic]
Lore, you’re 26 :O I thought you was about the 40 <3
and ... girls do not play wow stupid Aliena is clearly just a fake char played by a guy ((jk I love you Aliena))
[/off topic]

[Synistah]

Back peddling or S-Keying is a tank is fine, S-Keying as a DPS away from fire is not.. Certain situations excluded. Walking away while facing boss with your next rotation being instant casts, S-Keying in PvP, now thats where you have problems =P

I think alot of my friends have come to rest with the fact that i click, But i have been kicked from many guilds for clicking even when i out consistently perform them, Which just baffles me and quite honestly i find offensive. Though some have been merited because i can understand how "I click by choice" can be taken as me not caring about the raid or guilds progression.. In which this is not the case. I personally find i dont have massive gains in performance by Binding over clicking, However again situations arise where the small benefits add up.. IE: Progression content.

[Yggdrasil]

Used to be a warlock in my guild that would flip out in the private applicant review threads on the guild forums if people pointed out that a player was a keyboard turner or a clicker. Insist that keyboard turning was perfectly acceptable and you can react just as fast with it. You would never guess who I ended up having to battle res when good ol fire came out right? Or who would make blanket statements about how shadow priests and warlocks couldn't break 5k dps (it was Ulduar time period mind you, but surprise surprise her boyfriend was a keyboard turning shadow priest and she was a keyboard turning warlock) She was pretty silly and eventally emo'ed out to no surprise but to this day I still try to understand why it was so important to be right on such a widely accepted practiced.

I mean like Lore said. Certain situations its worth doing. I do it while healing at times for the exact reason or reasons like it that you stated. But the difference is knowing that this is is "NOW" moment to move and a "I got a second" moment to move.

Anyways funny stuff good video. Take it easy.

[Synistah]

I mean like Lore said. Certain situations its worth doing. I do it while healing at times for the exact reason or reasons like it that you stated. But the difference is knowing that this is is "NOW" moment to move and a "I got a second" moment to move.

Well said, There is a time that keyboard turning wont get you killed and a time that its just silly to do it. I remember when i would keyboard turn in every situation, I noticed my reaction time was slow, my deaths were high and my raid awareness was negligible. Keyboard turning will never be as fast or precise as being able to turn with your mouse especially when you need to change direction or facing multiple times in succession.

[Ayeree]

Wedding ring, or the One Ring? Come on, you can tell me, you didn't actually throw it into the firey chasm from whence it came did you?

[Synistah]

Maybe that's how he got his wedding ring.. He ventured into the firey chasm from whence it came to retrieve it and offer it as a gesture of love to his beloved wife. The ultimate act of life risking activity.

[Scyla]

Well, someone told me once that he couldn't turn his char with the mouse because then he will not be able to activate his spells with the mouse.

Totally logic if you ask me :P .

And I totally agree with the assumption that most keyboard turners are in fact mouse-clickers so maybe you should do an episode about clicking next week.

Hm maybe I should watch the episode about the Nostromo SpeedPad again because I don't know if key-bindings mentioned there.

[Synistah]

Well, someone told me once that he couldn't turn his char with the mouse because then he will not be able to activate his spells with the mouse.

Totally logic if you ask me :P .

And I totally agree with the assumption that most keyboard turners are in fact mouse-clickers so maybe you should do an episode about clicking next week.

Hm maybe I should watch the episode about the Nostromo SpeedPad again because I don't know if key-bindings mentioned there.

Ironic, I actually sent Lore quite a length message regarding next weeks topic and about it being Clicking and possibly a brief continuation on keyboard turning and a small insight to S-Keying.

Again, Its not entirely possible to Click and not be a keyboard turner since like i said its quite difficult to use your mouse to move while trying at the same time to use it in order to click spells. Hence why i <3 my mouse that has two movement options, one physically moving the mouse and the second a touch pad on the side like a laptop touchpad would be, Allowing me to click(because i choose to, when i choose to) and still maintain a high level of movement and awareness

[DnQuxiti]

As a tank, I find that key turning has its place, even if mouse turning is better for most things. Basically, any time I need to make fine adjustments, like dealing with mobs deciding to reposition themselves, for example, then I will key turn. I also usually key turn when I need to spin a boss around, as if I strafe left and key turn right, the turn speed is usually just right to spin the boss without presenting my back.

[Scyla]

Ironic, I actually sent Lore quite a length message regarding next weeks topic and about it being Clicking and possibly a brief continuation on keyboard turning and a small insight to S-Keying.

Again, Its not entirely possible to Click and not be a keyboard turner since like i said its quite difficult to use your mouse to move while trying at the same time to use it in order to click spells. Hence why i <3 my mouse that has two movement options, one physically moving the mouse and the second a touch pad on the side like a laptop touchpad would be, Allowing me to click(because i choose to, when i choose to) and still maintain a high level of movement and awareness

Well my guess is that we all started with some sort of keyboard turning and mouse clicking. Hell I clicked a lot of spells myself still at the beginning of WotLK (mainly hs and cleave). It worked all the way trough classic naxx and sunwell but I wasn't happy with the overall situation so I took Xavs advice and:
Keybind everything!!!!

And my reactiontime as well as my overall capabillity to play WoW rised up quite a notch. So I guess if it works for you it is ok BUT I can tell from my own experience that you could be a much better player with mouseturning and keybindings.That's all i guess.

[VampyrByte]

Ironic, I actually sent Lore quite a length message regarding next weeks topic and about it being Clicking and possibly a brief continuation on keyboard turning and a small insight to S-Keying.

Again, Its not entirely possible to Click and not be a keyboard turner since like i said its quite difficult to use your mouse to move while trying at the same time to use it in order to click spells. Hence why i <3 my mouse that has two movement options, one physically moving the mouse and the second a touch pad on the side like a laptop touchpad would be, Allowing me to click(because i choose to, when i choose to) and still maintain a high level of movement and awareness

What mouse is that? and how does that work? I'm really interested!

[Synistah]

Well my guess is that we all started with some sort of keyboard turning and mouse clicking. Hell I clicked a lot of spells myself still at the beginning of WotLK (mainly hs and cleave). It worked all the way trough classic naxx and sunwell but I wasn't happy with the overall situation so I took Xavs advice and:
Keybind everything!!!!

And my reactiontime as well as my overall capabillity to play WoW rised up quite a notch. So I guess if it works for you it is ok BUT I can tell from my own experience that you could be a much better player with mouseturning and keybindings.That's all i guess.

[Wishmon]

I happen to do both depending what class im playing. i have 1 tank and 4 healers (scared of dps) and when im on my warrior tank im a clicker for most of the fights. my reaction time are fast enough for raiding as as a tank i dont really have to move a great deal so i use my mouse to do my abilities and target... ofc for whatever reason i need to move fast or having a planned movment pattern i can eaisly swap from clicking to keybinding and move with mouse.
when im on my healers it the other way round.. i use my keys to cast the spells and mouse to target frames and/or moving i still do use clicking if i dont have to move, example say i have been spamming 1,2 and 3 key and i want to cast a spell i dont use that much i click it also click when needing a pot or stone.

[Tressym]

When I played a warrior tank I keyboard turned and clicked. Never had any problems at all. A few people complained about it but I simply told them that when they can point out a single situation where my playstyle causes a wipe or makes it harder to kill a boss then I'll consider changing. Until then I'll play my way and they can play their way.

Now I play a priest healer and using mouse-over add-ons pretty much requires that I keyboard turn. Again I've yet to find a situation where it hinders my progress.

I think a lot of people (like me) end up keyboard turning because they really don't know how to type. I'm a "hunt & peck" typist so the idea of keybinds just means I'd make a lot of mistakes. I did end up buying a Merc ZBoard and when I play a dps caster I find it better to move with my mouse and use the 11 keys on the left (above the movement keys) for casting. But the majority of my gameplay consists of keyboard turning and clicking. I'm having fun and that's all that matters to me.

[Akeber]

Back peddling or S-Keying is a tank is fine

But one of the most common things that I do, which ppl get all ’nub’ exited about is my backpedalling... Yes it’s slower and yes it looks retarded, but I have a question why on earth do you as a tank want to turn your back to a foe like LK or Sindy that hits so f’ing hard even my fat ass and 5 layers of fur aint enough to soak half the dmg.

"Back peddling" as a tank is still bad. This does not mean I advocate turning your back and running, which is also bad. There is the third, and best, option of strafe running.

You can run at full speed while strafing AND your character can dodge/parry/block attacks from bosses/mobs that are attacking you from the side. Combine the two and you can be moving at full speed directly away from the boss/mobs, while still making full use of your avoidance.