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Thread: Gemming Dodge vs. Parry

  1. #1
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    Gemming Dodge vs. Parry

    Hi,

    I'm replacing my threat stat gems with avoidance ones now that my threat stats are capped from gear.

    My question is for red slots, is it better to gem stam/dodge gems or stam/parry?

    I ask because dodge gets hit so hard in ICC, that I wonder if it's still the most bang for my buck?

    Thanks for any advice!

    Terra

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    Methinks you need to read this whole site. Tanks do not gem for avoidance, they gem EH. There are literally hundreds of articles explaining this, how to gem for this, and so on.

    I suggest you take this up in the HALP! forum, and post an armory link.

  3. #3
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    If you must go for avoidance, then there's a balance to be struck somewhere - I'd use some trinkets or gems to figure out what gives me more avoidance and gem that.
    (You can ignore the ICC debuff, just gem what gives you most avoidance on the character screen.)

    If I were you, though, I wouldn't gem avoidance at all - gemming stam is, as previous poster said, far better.
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    Careful Martie. Blindly gemming stam is bad. Gear for EH. There is a difference. We can't promote bad habits.

    He needs to read tank gearing 101. I'd start with Aggathon's guide, since he is a warrior.

    http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...-tanking-guide

  5. #5
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    Thank you for the replies. I used to gem pure stam, but now I have pretty decent gear and with stam trinkets and full buffs I'm up near 65k health. I'm not feeling scared anymore, even on Festergut 25, so I figure I can mix it up a bit rather than gemming all Solids. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

    That said, is dodge still better than parry with the ICC dodge debuff?

    Here is my armory

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by terralaine View Post
    Thank you for the replies. I used to gem pure stam, but now I have pretty decent gear and with stam trinkets and full buffs I'm up near 65k health. I'm not feeling scared anymore, even on Festergut 25, so I figure I can mix it up a bit rather than gemming all Solids. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

    That said, is dodge still better than parry with the ICC dodge debuff?

    Here is my armory
    I'd suggest putting a 30 stam in your shoulders, pvp enchant on your shoulders, all stamina in your chest, all stam in your bracers, you are probably better off with the ICC 10 bracers because of bonus armor. 18 stamina to your shield (arguably), all stam gems in your gloves, all stamina in your legs, all stam in your rings and you should replace your Corpse Tongue Coin with the high armor and nice on use Glyph of Indom. EH generally means armor and stamina, you rarely encounter that in enchants. The only time you do encounter a stamina vs armor issue is with a few select 277 pieces vs bonus armor 264 pieces and trinkets. Armor usually is a bit more valuable than numbers project because armor does not have to be healed to have it's value. But stamina gets worth slightly more depending on your situation because of 20% hp increase due to T10 4pc and increased healing, it really depends on your situation.

    It depends on how hard DR is hitting you on dodge. The ICC debuff doesn't affect the value but as gear scales DR does hurt dodge more.
    Last edited by krc; 06-08-2010 at 05:58 PM.

  7. #7
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    Chill of the Throne has no effect on the relative values of Dodge and Parry as it is subtracted after diminishing returns. So if Dodge worked out to more avoidance per point for you and your current gear in Dalaran then the same will be true inside ICC. Dodge is not inherently better than Parry and it is technically possible to get to the point where a point of Parry gives more avoidance than a point of Dodge, though this is unlikely to be an issue for most standard tanking gearsets.

    Specifically, the point at which a point of Parry gives more avoidance than a point of Dodge is when (char_sheet_dodge% / char_sheet_parry%) > 1.88. Remember, Chill of the Throne has no effect on the benefits of either stat after DR so you should take those figures when you're outside of ICC (or remember to add 20% to your Dodge figure before calculating).

    Your Armory shows 29.27% Dodge and 23.53% Parry. 29.27 / 23.53 = 1.24 so in the current gear and spec you have on the Armory, a point of Dodge will indeed yield more avoidance than a point of Parry.

    However, Insahnity and Martie are absolutely correct in that your avoidance stats should be limited to what comes on your gear and your gems and enchants should be focussed on Effective Health for your MT set. As a general rule of thumb, I will only match sockets where the bonus is +9 or +12 Stam (though this also depends on the number of sockets, how many of the sockets are blue and so on). It's worth noting that while Warriors get a less favourable Agi to Dodge conversion than Paladins, Agi/Stam is still better than other red-matching gems from an EH perspective due to the Armor derived from Agility and, as has been mentioned, the avoidance component should not be your focus when deciding on which gems to use anyway.

    Hope that clarifies it a little for you.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Insahnity View Post
    Careful Martie. Blindly gemming stam is bad. Gear for EH. There is a difference.
    EH is short for Effective Health, which is a combination of Armor + Stamina. I would like this explained since we can't gem for armor.

    Aside from 1 gem to activate a meta all tanks should be gemming for +30 stamina in every slot for ICC. This is clearly explained in the guide you linked written by Aggathon.
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

  9. #9
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    Moved to HALP!

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    Thankies Kaze!

    Now then *rolls up sleeves*

    If you feel the urge to stop gemming for stamina, go read the link I posted earlier (seriously, if I go through the trouble of finding an article for you to read, please read it first). And if that isn't enough evidence, go read

    http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...g-mechanics%29

    If you *still* want to gem avoidance, then you need to find more articles comparing EH to avoidance in WotLK.

    I suspect you might be trying to change your gearing because you are having troubles clearing something, perhaps your healers are having a hard time healing. Well don't. Your gear is respectable as is, either there is something wrong with your gameplay, or somebody or some people in the raid are letting you down. Your gear is fine. Having said that, you made several gearing choices that are less than optimal.

    As for your armory, you have reached 8% hit cap, you are over expertise soft cap of 26, you are over 540 defense, there is NO reason whatsoever to chase after socket bonuses. Stop gemming defense/stamina, anything you gain in terms of +4/+6 stamina is lost by the DR on your defense. Regem the following:

    -Both Rings, gloves, cloak, bracers, shoulders, boots and belt to pure stamina. All of it.
    -Change the defense/stam gems on chest and pants to hit/stam gems.
    Doing this is a net gain of 81 stamina on gems alone, you will still be hit/expertise/defense capped. Factor in that 81 stamina is about 1200 HPs with the ICC buff, which allows you to take 1750 physical damage. if you have a combat log showing (You just died, Overkill by ####) and that number is less than 1750, you would have lived if you follow this advice. it gets better if you get more stamina (keep reading)

    -30 stam on shouders as mentioned earlier
    -Go with either 18 stam on shield, or my recommendation, Titanium plating, on your shield, for extra threat.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodasafa View Post
    EH is short for Effective Health, which is a combination of Armor + Stamina. I would like this explained since we can't gem for armor.
    No, but you can enchant for armor. But I really don't want to degenerate this into a 18 stam to gloves vs 225 armor, especially since the OP has correctly picked up 885 armor to gloves.

    Admittedly, I chase after 12 stamina bonuses. Gemming for pure stamina except a single red for meta is where I disagree with Agg.
    Last edited by Insahnity; 06-08-2010 at 06:57 PM.

  12. #12
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    Thanks guys. The consensus was go back to stam, which I did. I'm not having issues with survivability, which is why I thought I could sneak in some other stats, but I guess it's not worth it. More EH is more isnsurance.

    Thanks again. I may tweak it a bit later and go after those +12 socket bonuses.

  13. #13
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    Also, thanks Mert. That did clarify. I wasn't sure about the debuff and how it related to diminishing returns.

  14. #14
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    I may tweak it a bit later and go after those +12 socket bonuses.
    If you are thinking of those Pillars of Might or Cataclysmic Chestguard bonuses... think again. You end up loosing somewhere around 30 stam for bonuses that you don't really need.
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